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Thank you for sharing Elaine. All good information on PFAS!Since Alan hasn't found a chat room in NJ yet- maybe you can post again so everyone can find it easily.
Dan
USA - Sat 02/22/2025 - 09:11:13

John noted.
When I spoke of AI being used I was speaking specifically of Chat GPT. The kids know how to use this. With the existing known data and the right questions asked, one can begin to obtain some very usable information, that is if you are upgrading and adapting the initial information that comes out on a consistent basis, all FREE.
Alan
USAone would be - Sat 02/22/2025 - 08:10:56

Alan: While I believe that, based on your education, knowledge and career, you can discuss PFAS and chemical pollution in detail, I would suggest that some comments are getting a bit too complicated for my readers, ok? Remember your audience is not that sophisticated.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
Clearwater , FL USA - Sat 02/22/2025 - 01:38:33

Elaine-PFAS
To evaluate the unknown, you need to have a hypothesis with the given information However, before even starting this, Chatham will need to "call the ball". Meaning the Fed EPA are already indicating there soon will be a Federal Law for max. Concentration of the following PFAS compounds: PFOA, PFOS, "GEX Chemicals", PFBS, PFNA,PFHxS-currently no way around this.

Despite what might be that I have no skin in the game, nothing could be farther from the truth. So allow me to present a rudimentary Alan Prescription for PFAS, laugh if you will:
To establish a hypothesis, AI should immediately proceed with questions with the given as to what is known already, specially designed so that response can continuously be upgraded and adapted.
Chatham officials need direct contact with the USA EPA, the same would hold true for the European Environmental Agency and most if not all, would be FREE. These agencies can provide key direction, data, and maybe even suggestions in how to attack PFAS. Failure to do, would be a huge mistake on Chatham's part. Chatham authorities should be in contact with the CDC.
Chatham officials need to be in direct contact with the 2 largest producers of PFAS compounds; DuPont and 3M. These2 companies are holding Hugh data banks on PFAS. Chatham needs to be speaking how other states and European entities to secure what options that are out there where similiar exist.
To say you're going to establish PFAS filtration it is well known that the Europeans have ongoing programs, However parameters need to be considered to understand this will work. There's no better knowledge then to hear, been there and done that.
While Fe and Mg may be necessary, to be removed, the job at hand is to determine the PFAS compounds in the water and are they simgularily able to be detected and by what measurement means.
Alan
USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 23:38:22

I would say look at the treatment plant as a source of the PFAS. It concentrates it all in one place and can't be filtered out. Lot's of articles on this. In our hope to clean our water we may have made it worse.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 21:05:14

I am posting my previous comments again in the hope that Chatham residents who are directly impacted can read it before Alan posts again. This isn't an esoteric or hypothetical discussion. It's about the quality and quantity of Chatham's drinking water- which Alan doesn't drink. Perhaps we can stay focused on Chatham since we're going to be faced with a lot of spending requests at town meeting and need to decide what our priorities are. 'PFAS are unbiquitous. Attempting to find any sole source is unlikely as there are countless causes. However, 9 of our 11 town wells are all within our Water Resource Protection District north and west of RT 28 abutting the airport and Commerce Park where fuel, air conditioners, old rusted trailers and vehicles and other sources of contamination have been stored for years. Instead of trying to find an illusive source, The solution is to install Iron and Manganese treatment on all of our wells which is required in order to install PFAS filtration. We are way behind on this. It takes years to design and construct, and millions in cost. Rule of thumb; Survival-3 minutes without air,3 days without water,and 3 weeks without food. So why isn't our drinking water- both quantity(increased storage capacity and new wells) and quality of our drinking water- at the very top of our list? The eternal Chatham question that town government continues not to address.' I hope chatham voters will let Town officials know that drinking water must be at the top of the list for public health and safety.
Elaine B Gibbs
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 20:51:03

SueS
Probably the most important observation in your Yarmouth mentioning, is that the former Municipal Fire Training Academy in Hyannis had complete control of AFFF) (Aqueous Film Forming Foam) purchased and used by them, to fight simulated fires (airport crashes or otherwise). This fact has zero to do with the number of departures or landings at `Hyannis" and again any suggestion of his fact is a totally false claim.

Science has now come to recognize the 2 main PFAS components of the AFFF are PFOS and PFOA. Yes, so if these compounds are present in your plume, then it is almost certain that the foam is the root cause. I believe thIS has beeb concluded.

In Chatham, I do not believe PFOS or PFOA have ever been detected In the water supply. So One hypothesis begins to suggest that Foam is the root cause of the PFAS problem and hence one can begin to also conclude that that the CHATHAM Airport has nothing to do with this fire fighting foam difficulty in the water supply.

Are you 100% that the Dennis water uppply does not have any PFAS compounds in the Water?
Alan
USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 20:14:04

PFAS are unbiquitous. Attempting to find any sole source is unlikely as there are numerous causes. However, 9 of our 11 town wells are all within our Water Resource Protection District north of RT 28 abutting the airport and Commerce Park where fuel, air conditioners, old rusted trailers and vehicles and other sources of contamination have been stored for years. The solution is to install Iron and Manganese treatment on all of our wells which is required in order to install PFAS filtration. We are way behind on this. It takes years to design and construct, and millionsin cost. Rule of thumb; survival-3 minutes without air,3 days without water,and 3 weeks without food. So why isn't our drinking water- both quantity(increased storage capacity and new wells) and quality of our drinking water- at the top of our list? The eternal Chatham question that town government continues not to address.
Elaine B Gibbs
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 20:05:54

Sue, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Town, but your surprise that Chatham would have PFAS leads me to believe that you may be missing some of its history. I'm not suggesting that I know where the plume had originated from or that the pollution is exclusive to the following sources, but with PFAS being from ambiguous origins, it's worth noting that over the years, Chatham has been home to numerous military posts and installations from several different branches. Additionally, RCA(and subsequently MCI) owned about 165 acres of land from South Chatham to Chathamport, including over thirty acres in the vicinity of the aforementioned plume. I'm not saying it definitely came from this, but it is possible. The town was once more openly industrial than what you see today.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 19:18:01

No assumptions. The PFAS in West Yarmouth is from the plume at the airport. Plenty of articles about it. Just because Chatham is now filtering the PFAS does not mean it is not here anymore. I was only curious if anyone knew if the source of the PFAS in Chatham was ever identified? Odd that a place like Chatham would have a PFAS problems when somewhere like Dennis doesn't.
SueS
USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 17:32:47

for some reason I cannot post the data from the website, but there are no detectable PFAS in the water wells drawn from our single source Monomoy lens in Chatham.
Jim
USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 16:02:41

dealing with PFAS
First, what are you measuring, total PFAS in the water or the more difficult singular entities of PFAS. I think ChATHAM has been dealing with this issue for some time. if you are unable to identity the PFAS specific compound, you will more then likely have little chance of understanding where or what the origin is.

To assume that either CHATHAM or Yarmouth PFAS contamination is derived from the airport is unreasonable.

I would gather to guess, that Chatham has neither JP4 or any other advance jet fuel stored on their property and the same would hold true for PFAS foam. Good old fashion water was used to extinguish any fire.
Alan
USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 15:47:05

Alan, I know you don't live here, but where do you think our PFAS came from? Also, in your opinion is jet fuel good for our drinking water and our air quality?
SueS
USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 13:29:02

Dear SueS
When one scientifically speaks of PFAS. there are more than 30 different compoundes .. (30 different substituted "groups" coming off the carbon backbone. Making it even more difficult to understand is the fact that some of these compounds are used in such trace amounts that in routine production techniques they are extremely difficult to measure and know the ultimate source. For more than 10 years now, the USA EPA has carried out intensive studies to know more.

For example, PVC profiles (bottles) need a number of different raw materials to make them successfully. As the PVC is loaded onto an extruder, one member of the formulation might be a PVC stabilizer a calcium/Zink TYPE to make the process work effectively. The CA/Zn compound comes to the maker listed as 100%, but somewhere along the line of the Ca/Zn making, it may have touched a trace quantity of a PFAS COUPOUND,
no one can no this for 100% sure.

So the CaZn example is much different than the pervasive foam application, it's easy to measure the concentration in the foam, where it is near impossible to measure in the Ca/Zn. Throw out the Ca/Zn of find an alternative you say, done all of the time in industry, but eventually one will come to see that the CaZn is the best approach, even by EPA standards.

A more common study is that of athelic fields
Alan
USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 10:39:25

Dear SueS
You (any any others) having an objective of closing down " Cape Airports" for reasons you have very little understanding of, makes no sense. First, Otis is currently known and occupied by the Air National Guard. The mission-intelligence gathering and is one of the single most importance operations in all of the US. The Navy uses this base as an option to relocate fighters should it ever become necessary. The number of flights in and out of the Cape Air fields has zero to do with PFAS contamination and everything to do, with what is well known today, with the older perfluoro foam formulations,
This system was used to extinguish fires resulting in air crashes. Before all this became known, Otis was routinely used by fire fighting depts. as a training area to conduct these operations.. This ceased, but not before it became known of the extreme environmental toxicity. Leaching has occurred and most likely still is occurring only because there are few known ways to stop it.

The Navy or the ANG has zero interest in Chatham or Hyannis to land jets. And any suggestion what so ever, that aircraft fires and perflorinated foam were used is to put out fires, is nonsense at either of the other fields. All three of these airports are an asset to their communities. FYI MVY island has done extensive work on PFAS compounds, you would do well to place an emphasis on this work
Alan
USA - Fri 02/21/2025 - 09:19:13

Actually- if you review my posts my preference is for the airports to close. If that cannot happen then Otis may be better because there is less encroachment. I think your concern about Otis was that more glights could come to CQX?
SueS
USA - Thu 02/20/2025 - 12:07:57

Sue you were arguing for the airport to go to Otis. What about those people? Do you practice what you preach? Are you giving up flying? Or do you just mean not in my back yard? Like all climate preachers who fly around on private jets.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 02/20/2025 - 09:52:03

Alan- Since you mentioned the airports. The airports and the planes are bad for the water supply on Cape. Two wells in Yarmouth had to be shut because of PFAS linked to the airport. The airport's response was 'not our problem'. As for Otis, well that PFAS is spreading more every day. Poor Mashpee is covered in it. Was the source for our PFAS problem in Chatham ever identified?
SueS
USA - Thu 02/20/2025 - 09:30:36

Yes, we are in very interesting times and over the next 100 days we might even see a clear path as to where we are going. One might consider reading this weeks letters to the Editor of the Capecod Chronicle and the foundation for which some of the ridiculous positions are based on. Then look at DOGE (true facts all being posted on the net for everyone to see.). Besides all the financial info that is being revealed now, one might wish to catch the fact that approximately 94% living in the Washington DC area are Dems, forgive me. where most base their thinking positions off of, News media or otherwise. And `I would submit, where most of the folks are obtaining their 'FACTS" Some still do not understand that Federal law supersedes any `mass. state law and this holds true especially where violent crime is occurring

Those not getting their puffed up daily feed from the trough are out squealing and one may look at Today's CBS news, it's a mess and the others are not far behind. Yet most New Englanders, Mass., Chatham, and many on this site, have viewpoints that will not change, even if they were to get not a $5000 check from DOGE. Which boat do you wish to be on, the "Judy Boat" or the "Richard Boat?"

`instead of worrying about airports, what about water. The $37,000 proposed plan for home owners to hook into the new main line sewer system. Or the new findings about micro plastics, now being found way beyond accepted limits in the body, due to the way the extruders are making the bottles themselves.

When I was young andgrowing up in New England, I took everything that Walter Cronkite said as gospel and `I still believe that todqay
Alan
USA - Thu 02/20/2025 - 06:50:14

Thank you for your kind words Richard. Her last few years were very comfortable and she lived her best. She wanted for nothing.

As your generation dwindles, it is all the more important that you write things down, make a record of the local history. Ensure your memories are captured.

We've made a lot of advances in this day and age but I'm not sure we can call it unqualified "progress." Seeing Chatham now, we've lost a way of life that centered around the seasons, the cranberry bogs, and the arrival and departure of fish species that fed both the economy and the lean stomachs of hard-working locals.

Luckily my sister got Cynthia to write down our lineage as she had almost mythical recall of family relations (and their peculiarities). These are things I wish I had known as a young man growing up there, but as I age, I can appreciate all the more. I guess better late than never.

Keep the memories flowing of what made Chatham so special. One of the gentlemen who posts here shared a post card with me this summer of my great-grand parents homestead across from Shop Ahoy. It showed open fields, dirt roads at the junction of 28 and Barn Hill, and a way of life that I wish we could get back to in its simplicity.
Jim
USA - Wed 02/19/2025 - 06:21:53

I am happy to learn that my classmate Cynthia was treated with dignity. She was an intelligent, caring person. The few of us remaining classmates (Nancy Nickerson Tansey and Ross Gould and Eddie Johnson ? ) will keep her in our thoughts.
There may be other remaining classmates but I don't have any contact with them. There were 14 girls and seven boys in our class.
Who knew?
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 02/18/2025 - 17:52:42

Good news story: I forgot to mention - just got back from burying a family member and the experience with the Town folks was outstanding! Quinn was helpful, patient, and worked with us to ensure we could effectuate the expressed intentions of the decedent.

The records were a bit wonky and he went above and beyond in checking data, the site, and the regulations to ensure we could carry out the intentions of our loved one.

Everyone involved was incredibly helpful: John F., Lorenzo and staff at the Funeral home, the staff at the Victorian, etc.

Well done Chatham!! Much appreciated.
Jim
USA - Tue 02/18/2025 - 07:47:32

Someone the other day asked me about power outages in Chatham in the 40's and early fifties. I honestly don't remember any loss of electricity at our home on Old Harbor Road. I really think that this is because the trees had not grown tall enough to challenge the wires.
Now, the trees are much taller and prone to fall even across the road to harm the wires.

Standing by for the next hurricane that will indeed be one to remember.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 02/17/2025 - 17:48:35

Just to add a little about Alton Kenny's boat yard., there was a steel clad building that was used for winter storage of wooden boats, with a dirt floor and no amenities. It was blown down in the area where the parking lot is now.
Secondly, Barry mentioned the trees that were down. Somehow, German POw's from Camp Edwards were brought in to muscle the trees in to smaller pieces. Probably with two man saws. I assume these were elm trees. Don't forget a lot of the Chatham men were away fighting the war. The POW's were probably happy to be unconfined, and have something to do. And not be shot at.
Thirdly, a victim of the storm was the Monomoy Coast Guard Station. (Not Monomoy Point Station) It was built in 1872, a Red House design of which there were nine built on the Cape. It was originally a Life Saving Station. It was blown down by the winds. I don't know what happened to the wood, but I imagine it was put to good use. It was a simple building, as there was no electricity or indoor plumbing. Reuse by early Chatham "recyclers" was a given.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 02/17/2025 - 16:33:21

Thanks Barry. I will add something later today.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 02/17/2025 - 08:50:58

Richard;I was only 4yrs old but I have a pretty good memory. I went with my father down to Mill Hill overlooking Bridge Street, because we couldn't go any further because the tide was flooding all across the road, we saw only the top hand rail of
the Mitchell river bridge and there was a 35 or 40 foot fishing boat half way up the lawn at the yellow house, "Cox's",I believe,it stayed there for about a week before anybody could remove it. Alton Kenny's boat work shop was pretty well destroyed and there was a lot of debris way up behind what is now the harbor masters office and behind Tony Murphy's folks house! It was a sorry site! Also one of the spires on the Universalist Church blew off and was stuck into the lawn like a ice cream cone, lots of tree's were down everywhere
Barry L. Fulcher <barsyl4041@comcast.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 21:01:56

2024 book, Historic storms of Cape Cod by Don Wilding has some info on the 44 storm. Some of you may know him.

There was an article in the Chronicle about it.

https://capecodchronicle.com/articles/609/view
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 20:04:18

Jim, You have my offer of support in any way you need. West Chatham people stick together!
Wayne Gould <alongshore2002@yahoo.com>
west chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 16:39:36

I hope my older siblings and members of the Fulcher family will add to the conversation about the '44 Hurricane.
I will get on it in a day or so.
Jim, I support your feelings of anger and grief.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 16:28:37

We are about due for another hurricane.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 16:25:41

Ditto Jim. Using a Chatham bomb making killer as a user name is way out of bounds.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 15:07:07

Richard, please do.

To the poster using Andreas Miller as a user name: (I'll say this as politely as I can)....please stop. Andreas is a drug-dealing, bomb-making killer responsible for the death of two people this last year, one of them my brother.

I find this in poor taste, and an attempt at inflicting as much emotional trauma as you can upon a family still grieving. I'll kindly ask you to stop. I will assume you didn't know this in your attempt at being cute.

If I find otherwise, I will be back there in a little over a month and you can rest assured, you and I will address this via alternative methods.
Jim
USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 13:23:05

Can we talk about the effects of the 1944 hurricane on Chatham?
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 13:14:01

John- This is getting pathetic. Andreas is another fake name. I am not Sandy as you can tell. This room has turned into the Babylon Bee and the Onion. It's pretty unfortunate. It used to be a place for intelligent discourse and sharing of facts important to Chatham.
Elaine B Gibbs
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 11:23:19

Sandy, er I mean, Elaine, give it a rest. What could possibly be said about your family?

Even more strident with a pseudonym apparently

Go take a walk in the slush
Andreas Miller <crossstreet@comcast.net>
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 11:01:36

Richard - you were sharing medical information about people (departed or not) that they or their families may not appreciate. I would have a serious issue if you had said something about my family similar to that. That was the point I was trying to make.
Sandy
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 10:25:27

Don and I are good friends. I never referred to him as departed.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 09:03:08

First, it appears that the HCoop double posting bug affected my last post as I was not on iPad at 1am!

Second, to Sandy: The first post that I found from you on quick search was from a few days ago. I don't know who you are, but I have known Richard for many years. So yes, given a well known person vs an unknown one, I will give him a bit more latitude here. But I did warn him about his political posts.
As to Don St Pierre, he was specifically mentioned as being alive by Richard in his first comment so why would anyone think otherwise? And his comments are not gossip in my opinion.
Also, there's no possibility of legal action for the comments he made.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
Clearwater , FL USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 01:35:41

Sandy: A couple of your comments to Richard are within the range of personal attacks which are not allowed here. You don't get to criticize long term users of this site at this time, especially as you haven't yet given sufficient clues to your identity that I can see.
Richard and Bill P: I was trying to focus the discussion away from ANY national level politics so some of your comments weren't helpful in that.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
Clearwater , FL USA - Sun 02/16/2025 - 01:01:10

I challenge anyone to google Chatham events for 2025 and see what you get. Too early you say, it's never too early.
Alan
USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 21:52:00

When I was much younger and taking my kids to the Cape/Chatham, the affordability was such that we could just about handle the cost of a 1 week stay. Chatham has a golden nugget set of natural resources, which we indeed enjoyed, but always felt there could have been more for kids and Srs. Yes the parade, baseball, Friday night band at Gould and theater are summer main highlights and to a lesser extent the bike trials, but if you miss these key dates, I alway felt these programs could have been expanded for family enjoyment.

As an example, what happens when it rains, everyone files into Main Street you have a mess with everyone going their own way. What might happen if the township sponsored lunch for a buck at noon at Gould during these days.

Another example on a given day, might be the town a gifts from proprietors with their individual program painted on ping pong balls and shot of a cannon from the fire station onto the baseball field to be had by visitors.

Still yet, in Harwich, during 2022 the police/fire department put on a free picnic which as far as I could see, turned out spectacular. Latter, the same held true. for a town beach picnic during 2023.

People come with their bikes and while residents have their home tools to practically fix a situation, visitors on limited budgets ,do not have this option. How about having a midweek bike mechanic on the trail, on a subsidized basis to assist and not just a air station

I never thought I would be suggesting this, but what about a practically priced bingo tournament or a one hole mini putting tournament with some nice donations.
.
I just tossed out some ideas, some that I saw worked, but Chatham is such a beautiful place.
Adding parking spaces, handing out parking tickets or providing charging stations , that's not promoting tourism or building a fun legacy for Chatham. Even having 10 functional bikes for rent on
Alan
USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 21:47:30

Mr. Halgren - along the lines of personal attacks? Mr. Ryder has gossiped about folks that are still alive without having facts and posting on social media. That can get him in trouble legally, which it should, and you as the moderator should tell him that. I knew the deceased folks he's referring to as well as Mr. St. Pierre who is very much alive and may not appreciate his comments. He continues to talk or reference politics as you have warned all of us multiple times. I feel there may be a double standard here but I hope not. Thank you for your input.
Sandy
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 20:48:14

When I comment on this chat I leave my Email so you know who I am.Are you married to know who you are.
Dick Fulcher <dick.marie@comcast.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 20:23:54

Married should be Affaid.
Dick Fulcher <dick.marie@comcast.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 20:22:33

When I comment on this chat I leave my Email so you know who I am.Are you married to know who you are.
Dick Fulcher <dick.marie@comcast.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 20:14:25

I think Don St Pierre may be surprised to learn of his demise, Richard!
Don
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 20:08:42

I'm a little confused here. Richard - didn't you complain to John about folks talking politics and specifically call JimP out? Was this all about your hurt feelings about RFK Jr. and not the folks you mentioned? Grow up. Your comments are still out of line. BillP - thank you!
Sandy
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 19:46:56

Richard, the Kennedy appointment was known before the election and Trump still won. Also Kennedy is not against vaccines. Stop reading the fraudulent press and TV reports, which we now know was paid government propaganda.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 19:36:50

Richard- you mentioned someone yesterday that is still with us. The others have families that may not appreciate your rambling. I would not appreciate it if I were in those families and read your comments. Please be respectful of others.
Sandy
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 19:11:24

I was referring to the recent appointment of a Vaccination denier as the new head of a major public health entity funded by the people of this country. Wake up!
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 19:07:05

I was mentioning Chatham people who are long departed.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 18:57:59

Richard - Not sure what you are talking about. We ARE moving forward as a country.

On another note, I'm not sure the folks you mentioned would appreciate you speaking about them and their illnesses. Better watch it. It's not your first time.
Sandy
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 18:08:24

Maybe Anna Olson and Grace Allison were afflicted with Polio as well. Anna was in brother John Ryder's class
Grace was in my Class of 1957. My wife, a retired nurse, remembers as a student nurse dealing with patients in a Boston hospital who were confined to iron lungs.

We need, as a country, to move forward, not backward.

I think I might have been exposed to the Polio virus at the Oyster Pond , where I was supposedly taking swimming lessons. I rather took joy in finding quahogs in the mud with my feet.
Stuff happens. You deal.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 02/15/2025 - 17:30:25

This has ChatRoom relevancy.
There are still two Polio / Infantile Paralysis Survivors on the Outer Cape that I know of: Myself and Don St.Pierre. Don grew up in Harwich, I in Chatham.
The Greater Boston Post Polio Survivors group disbanded several years ago due to diminishing numbers. What would have happened to some of you or your family if Polio Vaccine was not developed and administered to your children or grandchildren?
You have no idea.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 02/14/2025 - 17:43:46

John, understand completely, no worries at all.

Just good to see some of the folks finally getting interested in where our tax dollars may be going. Better late to the party than never.
Jim
USA - Fri 02/14/2025 - 17:23:27

Sue - in all honesty, this info is online. I do NOT agree with the contract our Town Manager gave to Mr. Howard for TEN years. It is ridiculous. I was also told at the time she was supposed to have the Select Board sign off on it - and that was not done. Many of us can agree to that. He has quite the monopoly there.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Fri 02/14/2025 - 17:07:31

Just to be clear, I am not on any Trump or DOGE train. I don't trust their engineers.
And, don't get your hopes up that I ever would be just because I am asking questions about who is benefiting from the Chatham Airport .
The only train I am planning to ride soon is the Amtrak Auto Train to Florida.
Anyone here ever do that?
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 02/14/2025 - 16:53:38

Jim: I just had a phone call from a long time user of this forum who feels that your recent post had too much national political references/content, and I tend to agree. The first paragraph was fine.
I need to keep that type stuff out of here so neither side gets offended, ok? Consider this a neutral zone.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
Clearwater , FL USA - Fri 02/14/2025 - 16:47:15

Judy, Mr. Ryder's question was whether anyone knew the revenue/expenditures for CQX. Do you know what they are?
SueS
USA - Fri 02/14/2025 - 16:33:53

Yes, Sue, I am a huge fan of the airport. If you had any history here, you'd also know that many regular posters of the Chatroom have also taken/take flying lessons there. In addition, my family owns land near it and we all love it. You and your friends are barking up the wrong tree here. There are a lot of regulars on this Chatroom that enjoy the airport. Take your concerns to someone who cares.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Fri 02/14/2025 - 15:11:35

now you guys are getting silly. No one is calling for "C130 combat landings." Hyperbole much?

Although it IS good to see you guys onboard the Trump-train and DOGE!! Let's cut wasteful government spending!! Richard and Sue take the lead in Chatham!!

Pro Tip: Look at the illegals running rampant in Mass....THAT'S where the $$ is. Go get 'em tigers!!
Jim
USA - Fri 02/14/2025 - 14:05:42

Good question, Richard. As BillP is such a big proponent of the airport and has advocated for the tripling of training flights and called for C130 combat landings at CQX- maybe he can assist with the revenue/expenditure question on the airport? JudyP also claimed to be a big fan of the airport..
SueS
USA - Fri 02/14/2025 - 07:46:40

Since no one responded with information about the Airport finances, I encourage those who are interested to go to the Airport Master Plan, Update, Chapter 9, Tables 9-2 for 2019 which shows that CQX is home to 4 businesses. Supposedly, there are 156 people employed by these businesses, with a payroll of $4.77 million .I encourage anyone to do the math yourselves . The actual revenue is less than $60,000 a year in the recent past.
Figures lie, and liars figure.
Just what is the revenue vs expense ratio for the Chatham Airport?
Not an FAA projection.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 02/13/2025 - 17:36:25

Just read the Chronicle, does anyone know who is running against Schell for Selectman?
Elaine ? Jared? Anyone?
AK
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 02/13/2025 - 14:22:44

Ok folks..here's my comment on today's posts:
Sandy - i watch this multiple times most every day so am aware of the discussion. It's a free form forum and while much of the airport stuff relates more to Hyannis, that's still within my limits because it's mid Cape area and had references to Chatham. I have not discouraged it because it's beneficial to have activity here instead of no posts for days.
Bill P - I just looked at your recent posts and find NOTHING close to what Dan accused you of!
Dan - You're the one who's making inaccurate claims as I was unable to find anything like you stated.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
Clearwater , FL USA - Thu 02/13/2025 - 10:28:30

Folks, I don't believe this is a discussion when a "select" group takes over the room with topics about an airport in Hyannis and proceeds to insult the regulars. Please stop this. It is ruining this experience for a few of us. Bill P - we enjoy your posts. Please keep them up. Dan should be reported to the moderator.
Sandy
USA - Thu 02/13/2025 - 09:38:53

Dan, you are a bold face liar. Please quote your accusations.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 02/13/2025 - 08:29:36

Bill, I know we all are advancing in age, but you seem to be forgetting your role in this discussion. You called people names, you had inflammatory eesponses and you made so many assumptions- which you have been doing alot lately. If you don't want a fight, don't pick one.
Dan
USA - Thu 02/13/2025 - 07:58:48

Jen, had you just posted that, made your plea 1 time to visit the site and help support us, things would have gone better for you here. IMO.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 02/12/2025 - 20:19:01

Hi JD,

The group is called Save Our Cape. Website is SaveOurCape.org. The focus is to raise awareness about the JetBlue and American/Republic sponsored flight training taking place all over the Cape. Photos are updated daily on the Twitter/X account: https://x.com/SaveOurCape
Jen
USA - Wed 02/12/2025 - 18:20:16

I walked in West Chatham this morning and was surprised to see the sidewalks such a mess. Wasn't the transfer station closed on Sunday to address this? Lots of folks here use the sidewalks regularly to get to work. I thought West Chatham was a "quaint little walking village'. Someone will have an accident if this isn't tended to.
Sandy
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 02/12/2025 - 10:14:11

Bravo, Jim P.
James J Dempsey
W.Chatham+Boxborough, MA USA - Wed 02/12/2025 - 09:29:11

Jim/BllP
My comment was directed towards Jane's post, where Jane spoke the word "HELP". I will always remember the short story of a piece of cake dropped on the floor by a first greater in the cafe and the reaction of other students standing nearby. And the 3 possible reactions:
1. Oh, I see yo dropped your cake, may I help you pick it up
2. another student, laughing, you fool, you dropped your cake on the floor
3. Still yet another student, sees the cake on the floor and just walks
right on by, saying nothing or offering no assistance

Jim, I knew a long time ago from which lens you see Life
Bill P. YOURS TOO, also well noted and thanks for that comeback of understanding
Alan
USA - Wed 02/12/2025 - 06:56:52

I disagree with folks not wanting to help each other. We can rant and rave, throw rocks at each other, and impugn each other's family lineage but in this small town everyone comes together to help everyone else. It's just been the "way" for generations. One of the things I love about this community is that we pull together to help each other out.

I don't care what your politics are, whether or not you like airplanes, or windmills off the coast, or the Nimitz docking at the fish pier, if you need help and I can assist, I'm in. I think most people feel this way. We're still a small town, with small town squabbles. I hope we can keep it such.
Jim
USA - Wed 02/12/2025 - 06:08:47

Question for "John" about your post on 02/11/25 at 17:53:12 where you wrote... "That is not the case with this group." What is the group that you refer to?
J D Cauble
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 02/12/2025 - 05:52:00

I'll take it back and take your word it's not. That first sentence is why I thought that, tying it to the thread of conversation that has been on going. I still don't get it though, how Elaine better be careful.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 22:35:23

BILL P
How you came to that conclusion is beyond me. My comment was entirely focused towards compassion.
Alan
USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 21:26:26

Elaine
be careful about all those you are speaking of. one never knows when it might be the case you need help. And you don't where it will come from.
s
Some of our classmates have passed and others are reaching points in their lives which are non recoverable. just in the past couple of days some have spoken about life long neighbors who have passed in Chatham

While having a fracture femer is not the same as undergoing cancer treatment these turbo charged events, cause folks come to think, never happen to me. Oh and I do not need anyones help nor will I want it. The latter sounds a bit like you.

You and Judy are very strong willed and always moving forward. Not everyone has this capacity
Alan
USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 21:18:53

Alan you make no sense with that post. Was it a threat?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 20:27:38

There she goes again!
Dan
USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 19:52:40

I find it oddly amusing that "John", "Jane", "Jason", "SueS" and "Jen" have SO much to say- ad nauseum- but are unwilling to actually identify themselves. Beating a dead horse is a curious plan to achieve an elusive and still yet unarticulated objective. But they have apparently found a new home here. Help for what "Jane"? I still don't know. FYI-Chatham Airport is not Hyannis.
Elaine B Gibbs
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 19:36:33

For years I have read the rantings of Elaine and Judy. You do not speak for all us. It is amazing how self centered people in this town can be. I just hope we never need anyone elses help.
Jane
USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 18:24:11

If anyone has something else to talk about then, by all means. It is true that some people want to close the airports, but if you go to the website, that is not the case with this group. If the JetBlue and American training continues, the airport in Hyannis will be forced to close. Good to know Chatham will open their doors to Cape Air though.
John
USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 17:53:12

This conversation began on January 31. It has now officially been going on for 11 full days. I think that may be a record. I still don't get the point of any of it, as it has virtually nothing to do with Chatham or our airport. If you want to kill readership of this site, you are succeeding.
Elaine B Gibbs
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 17:26:50

Flightradar.com is a cool site. Now I know why there are so many planes flying near or over us. Pilot training is essential. Men and women are not born knowing how to fly, or for that matter, how to row. I learned only one of those skills.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 17:17:17

Bill - it's a select group of folks that want to close the airport. Many are talking about them. Most of us that read the Chatroom were raised with the airport and have ZERO desire to see it go. They may want to consider going to another group instead of this one. I hope they continue to operate as well. They need to find a group with other like minded folks. They are wasting their time here.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 15:51:26

I hope they triple their flights!
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 15:48:35

Bill, Are you on the Board of Cape Air? I don't understand why you are so offended by people expressing an opinion, when you have so many.

Take a look at flightradar24.com. There are 4 training flights up right now.
KAPT58, KAPT56, KAPT 240 and KAPT978. Cape Air is flying circles all over the Cape.
Jason
USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 15:36:40

Seriously, at what point is this considered spam,trolling. They have made their point over and over.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 15:22:04

KAPT40 - This Cape Air training flight has been up for over an hour. One of the worst training flights seen. All over Brewster, Yarmouth, Sandwich and Barnstable. At least seven or eight crosses of the runway. Unreal.

KAP818 - Not listed as a training flight with the 'T', but running up through Wellfleet, Orleans, Dennis, Harwich, Chatham, Eastham. I think Cape Air is getting clever.
John
USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 11:09:19

Leaf blowers, mowers, trimmers come almost daily to my next door neighbor's house! Owners almost never here....! Huh? Worse is when the power goes out another neighbor has a gas powered portable generator he fires up less than 20 feet from my bedroom.....while my food in the fridge/freezer starts to rot.this is not the "Chatham way" I grew up with! Bob Ryder's generosity to Jared is the right way!
Emily <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 10:21:32

Cool story Sue.

Now do illegal immigration; or, why is the Mass. Governor, Boston Mayor, et al fighting so hard to protect rapists and child molesters?

Maybe align priorities and clean up our fiscal house and somewhere down the list we can address fiscal streams into municipal airports?
Jim
USA - Tue 02/11/2025 - 08:02:16

If you are lost, then go back and read the last week plus of posts. If airports are not covering their costs with revenue, then it is coming out of our pockets. If it is costing us money, and only a select few are using it, then why do we have it?
SueS
USA - Mon 02/10/2025 - 20:38:08

Please remind us why we are supposed to be worried about their revenue...?

I'm kind of lost here. Is it because we don't like planes? They interrupt our cocktail hours? All of a sudden people in Town found a fiscal conscience?

I tend to worry about me and mine. I don't lose too much sleep over what airlines do.
Jim
USA - Mon 02/10/2025 - 17:43:29

I note supporters of the Chatham Airport have been silent about the revenue vs the expense of operating the facility. Maybe they think it is none of my business, but it is definitely a ChaTRoom subject.
Watching air planes operating out of Chatham was very cool at one point for a lot of us.
I have witnessed hundreds of airplanes landing and taking off from the USS Intrepid, in support of combat operations off the coast of Vietnam. Day and night. I have flown in and out of the airport in Saigon, as well as many other short strip fields in the Delta region of Vietnam on my second tour.
Prop planes and medevac helos are cool, for sure.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 02/10/2025 - 17:25:49

Regarding the airport finances - According to the FY25 proposed operating budget for the Town of Barnstable, the airport was in the black in FY 23 with a revenue of 5.6million. In FY 24 there was a deficit of 226K and for FY 25 there is an expected deficit of 1.6 million. In terms of impact on the taxpayer, I do not have enough information to know for certain. What I can say is the traditional revenue stream for the airport comes in the form of 'charges for services' and that number has declined almost 4 million since FY23. FY25 funding sources also includes 2.5million received in 'intergovernmental aid'- which without it would put the FY25 deficit at 4.1million.

https://town.barnstable.ma.us/Departments/Finance/Budget_Information/25Budget/2025-Budget.pdf
Jen
USA - Mon 02/10/2025 - 12:47:39

Later on, the trap fishermen were using the grassy space on the side of the runway at Chatham Airport for drying twine. There is a Twine Field Road in Truro.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 02/09/2025 - 14:21:06

Twine field, that rings a bell.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/09/2025 - 10:59:46

Bill, by the sounds of it, that was Eldredge's twine field.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/09/2025 - 07:40:54

Rest in Peace Jeff Bremner- many years at the "dump" and mechanic at Meservey's

Rest in Peace Cynthia Harding- I remember Cynthia most from when she and her Mom worked at the drug store lunch counter in the brick building- both the sweetest people.
Cynthia Moore
South Chatham, MA USA - Sun 02/09/2025 - 07:30:22

Richard, there was a field in South Chatham that I thought was an old airfield at one point. I used to ride mini bikes there as a kid. I would go down the RR tracks and cut over to it. It was kind of hidden.

Any knowledge about that field and if it was an airfield?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 02/08/2025 - 21:15:20

had Skymeadow field, and Eastham had a no name field. Chatham Airport was built with funds from a Chatham person, Ms. Shattuck.( Remember Shattuck Place?)
Wilfred Berube was more than willing to help her establish the airport.
Question: Does the airport create a revenue stream for the Town, or does it cost taxpayers $$ to operate it?
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 02/08/2025 - 17:26:33

Isn't it interesting that Orlans ha
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 02/08/2025 - 17:18:59

For information related to the flight training on Cape Cod please visit: www.SaveOurCape.org

The petition is available through the same site. The petition can be signed anonymously. The whole purpose of this is to raise awareness, so everyone can come to their own conclusion. Two points I would like to highlight:

- Since 2017 Cape Air's flight training has increased by an estimated 500%
- Since 2017 Cape Cod Gateway's airport has seen an 85% drop in passengers from 200K in 2017 to 30K in 2023.

Question: Is flying a thing of the past or can people not find a flight because Cape Air is too busy training Jet Blue and American pilots?
Jen
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 19:05:42

Okay, so no need for a runway for aid flights. Regarding your other points, the Hyannis airport is a town airport, and Cape Air is a tenant. The people absolutely have a right to decide if they want to do business with a tenant who has stopped fulfilling the demand for passenger flights. You just said you loved freedom - do you think people should have a right to protest or petition against a company when that company has not fulfilled their promise? Or sound the alarm when people have been misled? The sound of freedom is not only in bombs and gunfire.
Dan
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 18:45:57

I love to watch planes landing and taking off. I've seen well over 1000 AF jets take off and land during my AF service and never tire of it.

There is even a YouTube channel that watches landing and take offs at LAX.

I hope these planes come down to Chatham and do touch and go's. Sounds like a nice time to watch. I vote for some C130's to do touch and go's at Chatham. Maybe some combat landing training.

I bet these Pilots are also training for the location, not just general training on a new plane. I want my pilot to know the airport they land and take off in.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 18:44:57

Dan, true, but methinks you miss the point. I really don't care if the runway is active or not and I am sitting four hundred yards south west of it. Some folks simply have issues with business or things they don't control. So, is the problem with the business and things they don't control, or them?

I don't see where entities doing what they are legally authorized to do, in a safe and lawful manner, get people's panties in such a twist.

If we worried about revenue and businesses, maybe we should stop political funding of NPR, Politico, Planned Parenthood...?? (watch people come unglued over this topic...).
Jim
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 18:27:01

It sounds like a C-130 could land or take-off pretty much anywhere. Not sure we need a runway for that. Just sayin.
Dan
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 18:02:07

Ya'll would go nuts listening to the machine gun fire and grenade range from Camp Bulls when we are sitting on our back porch in San Antonio. I sleep like a baby during night fire.

It's beautiful....the sound of FREEDOM.
Jim
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 17:50:20

Hi Richard - she often mentioned you were in her class. Her passing was so sudden we were not able to get the obit in for their Monday noon deadline. The calling hours are at Nickerson's in Chatham and I've been told the obit is on their website.
In ref to the airport, my other brother and I saw a C130 take off and land a few years ago with some other Chatham folks at the Chatham Airport.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 17:43:53

Richard, I've flown in some tight corkscrew descents into combat zones on them. They can do amazing things. I swear I saw one take off in a couple hundred yards off a dirt improvised strip in the desert. they are amazing aircraft.

This runway and clearance would be no problem.
Jim
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 17:40:47

Jim, I have flown on C-130's. Are you sure they could use Chatham Airport for landings and successful takeoffs ? In a scenario that you have conjured up?
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 17:00:26

Judy P:
Your aunt was a classmate of mine. Where are the visiting hours being held? I watch the Obituaries daily.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 16:52:38

Just because you may disagree with someone does not mean that they have hijacked this chatroom. By that logic,you have held me captive for years. As Jen pointed out Tradewind Aviation is already in Chatham and linked with Lift Academy. The problem is here. If you read through the posts you would see that this is about flight training beyond the 3-mile radius of the airport and mostly in the lower and outer cape. If you check flighradar now both KAPT787 and KAPT240 have been out running circles around the outer cape again. While the training is not in Chatham 100% of the time, we are all on this sandbar together and it might be a glimpse into our future in the near term.
SueS
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 15:38:01

Amy, I agree with you. Enough about Jet Blue and American. When they start to fly into Chatham we can have a discussion. I do believe this is another attempt by folks to highjack the Chatroom (again) and try to talk about being anti-airport. Many of us love the airport and are happy it's here. It's not our fault people bought properties by the airport and complain about the noise. You didn't do your due diligence.

Back to Chatham - - many of you lurkers were aware of my aunt (My Mom's sister). She passed away last Saturday. There wasn't time to get the info into the Chronicle. Visiting hours are Mon 2-4 in Chatham should you wish to attend.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 13:11:20

This is not about whether large commercial pilots should be trained it is about whether they should be trained on Cape Cod. Jet Blue and American are not based in Ma. There are plenty of other Part 135 carriers in Indiana and Florida and elsewhere that Jet Blue and American could affiliate with to train their pilots. Areas that do not already have groundwater contamination and poor air quality and a fragile ecosystem. Why Cape Cod?
SueS
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 11:54:45

I fly jet blue and American among others. I repeat, I want my pilots trained.
I do not understand why a few people are making this an "issue." Or is this just anti airport with a new line of attack?
Amy
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 11:23:08

These are not your pilots. They are students on a stipend of about $17/hour. Once they are trained, they go back to Jet Blue and American.

Batch 2 (KAPT787 & KAPT240)- Jet Blue and American Airlines pilots are up again. What's interesting is the training flights (according to one tracker) are now showing a flight plan of departing Hyannis and arriving in either Provincetown or Martha's Vineyard, but neither is following it. Both training flights are circling all around Provincetown, Truro, Wellfleet and parts of Eastham.
John
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 11:18:23

Personally, I prefer my pilots to be trained.
Amy
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 11:15:58

KAPT240- Jet Blue and American pilots are up training again. If you are tracking the flights you will see the ICAO for Cape Air is 'KAP'. If the callsign starts with KAPT then that is a training flight. The 'T' for training.

Cape Air managed to sustain their passenger operations on Cape Cod for thirty plus years without training Jet Blue and American Airlines pilots. If they can no longer survive on passenger operations alone then either they did not scale their business properly or there is no longer a need for the service they provide. In either case concerning ourselves with the financial wellbeing or carrying a loyalty for one company who has prioritized money over service, is not our burden to carry. Cape Air can be replaced or the airports can close. Quite frankly, if the training stops then I think many of the issues and concerns surrounding the airports will stop.
SueS
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 08:32:21

@BillP - The Chronicle still has the Remember When section in the e-Edition of the paper and that can be seen from the website. Look at the very top of the screen for E-EDITION.

Their menu item for "REMEMBER WHEN" below the banner seems to have stopped being updated in May.
James J Dempsey
W.Chatham+Boxborough, MA USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 08:02:55

Well, sitting here - again - about 400 yards south-east of the runway watching the sun come up. Haven't heard a plane in the last 24 hours. Are these planes in the room with us now..??

Has anyone given any thought that the training mission may bring in much needed revenue to off-set operating costs of the low volume the carriers experience throughout the year? That if you force a closure of this, you may get your wish of having no airports due to prohibitively expensive operating costs and limited revenue. Just thinking out loud....

As a previous poster stated: "Be careful what you wish for." Chatham is strategically located to support humanitarian assistance/Disaster operations via the ability to land C-130's and (I am betting) C-17's. It has a pretty decent MOG (Max on-ground) capability as well. It is also in close proximity to decent port facilities, or or trans-shipment via rotary wing to the interior. The Cape/Nantucket/Martha's Vineyard all benefit.
Jim
USA - Fri 02/07/2025 - 06:26:46

Sorry John, Having known you for a long time was just concerned as you had not made a stand. I have been around since day one and I think these people are jerks, and have have hijacked our website. I have had some Chatham stuff that I wanted to put up but felt I could not.
Wayne <alongshore2002@yahoo.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 20:51:45

Wayne: I am actively watching these discussions and don't find them stupid, nor out of bounds because it involves topics relevant to Chatham and the surrounding area. And the signatures used, even if not necessarily accurate, aren't monikers either. People have been reasonably tolerant of other's views.
Plus it's causing activity which I prefer to it being quiet.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
Clearwater , FL USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 20:27:23

Cape Air should not be training Jet Blue and American pilots on Cape Cod or over Chatham. A promise of an electric plane is nothing more than a marketing strategy. If people don't want the airports to close or move to JBCC, this might be a good compromise.
https://www.change.org/stopflighttraining
SueS
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 19:57:15

I believe situation for new aircraft was a letter of intent with the Brizilians.
On a maiden flt of the P2012, there may have been a problem with the Italians. Based on the information released, my guess Capeair still may have not made.a final decision, but I
Am not on their board,
Alan
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 19:08:50

I believe situation for new aircraft was a letter of intent with the Brizilians
on a maiden flt of the P2012, there may have been a problem with the Italians P2012. Based on the information released, my guess Capeair still may have not made.a final decision, but I
Am not on their board,
Alan
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 19:05:07

I think an order was placed in 2022 with Eviation Alice. Just checked and doesn't look like there has been any progress with their prototype. Here is an article:

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/futureflight/2024-10-14/eviation-quietly-prepares-build-updated-alice-prototype

The new planes are the Tecnam's and very similar to the 402.
Jen
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 17:41:13

Well I have to say I am getting worried about our our esteemed moderator John. As with many of us he is not getting any younger and he is not doing anything about all this stupidly!
Wayne <alongshore2002@yahoo.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 17:35:51

I thought that Cape Air was ordering some battery operated planes.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 17:25:49

New planes are not electric and they carry the same number of passengers as the 402s.
Jen
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 17:18:17

Are the new CapeAir planes electric?
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 17:06:23

For anyone interested, a petition has been created calling for the stop of all Jet Blue and American Airlines sponsored flight training on Cape Cod.

https://www.change.org/stopflighttraining
Jen
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 16:41:41

Sue
I have no idea where u are are getting your info Capeair may not be the best airline in the USA, but the fact is they currently buying new aircraft to replace Cessna 402's. They are doing so because they hope to take advantage of the bos cape cod summer market?. An aircraft with a greater-passenger capacity , less fuel per passenger per seat translating to a lesser ticket price
And guess what, fewer aircraft in the air, less landings and less burden on ATC
Alan
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 15:49:44

Sue
I have no idea where u are are getting. Capeair may not be the best airline in the us, but the fact is they currently buying new aircraft to replace Cessna 402's. They are doing so because they hope to take advantage of the bos cape cod summer market?. An aircraft with a greater-passenger capacity , less fuel per passenger per seat translating to a lesser ticket price
And guess what, fewer aircraft in the, less landings and less burden on ATC
Alan
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 15:46:03

I doubt there would be enough hangar space for both carriers at Gateway. Anyone know how much Cape Air pays to be in Hyannis? As of Oct2024 they were only paying $3555 in P'town. You can't even rent a house for that here.

https://provincetownindependent.org/featured/2024/10/16/ptown-penalizes-cape-air-for-breaking-its-lease/
SarahT
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 15:02:48

Does anyone know why the online Chronicle stopped the "remember when" postings.

There have been no new ones in a long time. Are they still in the print version?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 14:14:35

Keep it up, John!

Cape Air only existed to transport passengers, and they aren't doing it anymore. If we can't close the airports, we can certainly replace Cape Air. Southern Airways was here in '22 and '23 to get people to the islands because Cape Air was too busy training. It might be an option.

https://flyhya.com/southern-airways-express-and-jet-blue-returning-to-cape-cod-gateway-airport-hya/
SueS
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 14:05:30

Let's get back on track.
Dick Fulcher <dick.marie@comcast.net>
Chatham MA 02633, MA USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 13:12:28

Your standard between right and wrong is whether someone is breaking the law? If Cape Cod is turning into Daytona Beach I think we all have a right to know. For that reason alone, it is relevant to Chatham. If you don't want to read it, then scroll by it. What do you three have to lose if the airports go away?
Roger
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 13:12:02

I'm with you Jim!!
Tony Murphy
W Chatham , MA USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 13:01:01

done about what...?? The lawful utilization of the airways by authorized entities?

I don't understand what we're supposed to be all twisted-up about. You guys angry that these flying-machines are above you?

Who hurt you Boo?
Jim
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 12:36:31

Please stop. We don't need a running account of Air traffic. It's not even Chatham related.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 11:37:51

Batch 3-

KAPT978- Up for a third time this morning over Harwich, Brewster and Dennis.

KAPT240- Touch and goes in Provincetown and all over the mid Cape namely New Seabury and West Barnstable.
John
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 08:55:36

Pleae do not stop sharing John. This is helpful . Not sure what can be done about it, but it is good to know what is going on.
Janet Alston
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 08:05:52

Batch 2-

KAPT978 is up for a second time this morning. Flying 600' over Yarmouth Port and not on an approach.
John
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 07:50:38

I'm a bit confused, are we supposed to be hating on air traffic now? As I sit here in my lawn chair watching the sun come up the airport is about four hundred yards to my west. Nothing but quiet. Didn't have a problem last summer either. kind of enjoyed listening to the airplanes coming and going.

What's the latest outrage du jour.....what am I missing?
Jim
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 07:35:10

Good morning, Cape Cod

Batch 1 - Cape Air is up training American and Jet Blue pilots again.

KAPT978- Took off around 0640 headed directly towards E. Harwich and Orleans.

If you want to follow along check out flightradar24.com
John
USA - Thu 02/06/2025 - 06:52:57

Here is one of many articles. Cape Air has certainly forgotten who made them.

https://provincetownindependent.org/featured/2024/09/11/cape-air-drops-6-months-of-ptown-flights/
SueS
USA - Wed 02/05/2025 - 15:48:37

John - KAPT 747 is doing touch and goes in Provincetown. Why is Cape Air practicing in Provincetown when they cancelled year-round service because it wasn't making them enough money?
SueS
USA - Wed 02/05/2025 - 15:43:24

Batch 4 - Cape Air is still at it

KAPT747 - Mostly Bay flying making landfall at Wellfleet and Truro again.
John
USA - Wed 02/05/2025 - 15:19:12

Batch 3 -Cape Air is training Jet Blue and American pilots again.

KAPT978 - just took off and is over Harwich now.

If anyone wants to watch live, just go to flightradar24.com. There you will find the callsign, tail number, altitude, ground speed.
John
USA - Wed 02/05/2025 - 14:09:54

Amazing John
Are you actually an ATC controller out of Hyannis? Do you have your own private radar screen that's picking up transponder information where your able to call out specific altitudes and routes? Last I heard, it's a rather standard practice to do touch and goes during a training mission. Nothing safer than under ATC control. Seems to me that when a company upgrades their fleet, this is a positive thing.
Alan
USA - Wed 02/05/2025 - 12:04:53

Thanks for sharing this John. I had no idea how bad this was.
Judith
USA - Wed 02/05/2025 - 09:52:22

Batch 2 - Cape Air has three training flights up now.

KAPT978 - Tecnam P212 is up again and flying over Wellfleet and Eastham and is now under 600 feet over Yarmouth and does not appear to be on a final approach to the runway 15/33. This could be an FAA violation. Plane did a touch and go and has reversed course over Hyannis Port and is circling back for another 'operation' over the runway 15/33.
KAPT747 - Cessna 402 up through Yarmouth Port and just made landfall in Wellfleet & Truro.
KAPT40 - Cessna 402 - just took off up and over Sandwich and is on a direct line to Brewster's breakwater beach and Harwich's pleasant lake.
John
USA - Wed 02/05/2025 - 09:47:46

Batch 1- Cape Air is up training Jet Blue and American Pilots again this morning.

KAPT978- Is up and flying one of their new Tecnam 2012's. This training flight is flying in circles over the bay, before kissing Wellfleet at sunrise reversing course to come ashore in Sandwich down through Marstons Mills and out again over Cotuit. Fun fact Cape Air ordered over 70 of these Tecnam's to replace the Cessna 402. Tecnam is an Italian company and this is the first commercial aircraft they have ever made. Cape Air is their first customer.

So now we have trainees tr
John
USA - Wed 02/05/2025 - 08:06:05

John/Barnstable
First,I have a residence on the Cape, pay taxes to the community, and pay close attention to Chatham, as High School Students come into township.

Second, I never have an ego where I feel I have to brag about myself and yes I have experience as a student pilot where you think pilots are deliberately running around your home at 1000 ft, the spoiling your outdoor activities. This concept is ridiculous

Third to suggest that flight schools should add to your portfolio list I why airport runways should be shut down. These flight schools are providing young people their first step to a rewarding career. I would ask, why don't you stop
Alan
USA - Wed 02/05/2025 - 06:28:15

Agreed, Richard.

Batch three- looks like Cape Air is training Jet Blue and American pilots this evening,

KAPT747 has hit up Dennis, Brewster and Harwich Port narrowly missing Chatham before cutting out to Monomoy at 2000 feet. They have crossed the runway three times and are still flying.
John
USA - Tue 02/04/2025 - 18:15:20

Interesting comments going back and forth re local airports.
Eastham once had an airfield, where North 40 and Runway Lane roads are now located.

Chatham only needs a heliport.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 02/04/2025 - 17:22:38

Batch two- looks like Cape Air is training Jet Blue and American pilots again

KAPT747- has flown over Truro, Wellfleet, Eastham, Orleans, Brewster, Harwich and Dennis at 2,000ft or less.
John
USA - Tue 02/04/2025 - 16:16:17

My wish is that both airports are closed permanently because only a select few use and as Kate said, 'abuse the privilege'. The majority of the usage is not for the public good and not worth the squeeze.
-25K passenger enplanements with Jet Blue per annum (12,500 departing/12,500 arriving)
-9K passenger enplanements with Cape Air per annum (some of these may include flights where Cape Air students are the passengers however)
-Total Operations: Last quote I saw was around 90K per annum. This is a particularly misleading number because each time an aircraft crosses the runway it counts as an operation. Each time a trainee crosses the runway it counts as an operation, resulting in as many as 6 operations in a one-hour flight

To be generous we are looking at 90K operations per year out of Hyannis. It sounds like alot, but not when compared to the estimated 80K cars crossing the Sagamore per day in the Summer. These airports exist for a select few, not because they fulfill a real need.

Appertaining to your concern about Chatham expanding as a result of either the closure or relocation of Jet Blue's airport. Despite what airport management, airport commissions, companies or what the BoS or Town Council's blindly reiterate, the FAA does not have as much authority as we are all led to believe. Everyone has a dog in this fight, and fear mongering should not discourage people from speaking up.
SueS
USA - Tue 02/04/2025 - 14:49:53

Be careful what you wish for. If Barnstable airport closed you can be sure Chatham airport will expand. Why would anyone from or going to the mid or lower Cape want to go all the way to Otis?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 02/04/2025 - 13:44:49

Might be of interest to this group...Barnstable approves feasibility study to move airport to JBCC.

https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2025/01/31/airport-joint-base-cape-cod-ma-study-gateway-logan-south/78088860007/

Reasons cited for not moving to JBCC: 1) Barnstable would have to pay the FAA 100 million and buy the 639 Acres outright; 2) There would be 1700 jobs lost; 3)JBCC would become "Logan South"

While I also would prefer to the see the airports close entirely, I do not agree with the reasons cited in the article for not moving the Jet Blue airport to JBCC:
1) When other local airports close, often times part of the negotiation with the FAA includes payment following the sale of the airport land
2) Moving the airport to JBCC would be doing the FEDs a favor - and could potentially reduce money owed to FAA. (this is standard practice in the USG)
3) The loss of 1700 jobs is misleading. There are only 24 employees at the airport. The 1700 jobs refers to pilots, ground crew and tenants at the airport - all of whom would be moved to JBCC. Many of these tenants do not even live on Cape or consider the Cape their home station.
4)We do not want to be Logan South - if that is true, then why did the current airport manager (Katie Servis) sneak through an airport master plan (during a pandemic) that includes taking more and more money from the FAA and includes the lengthening of runway 15/33.

Oh...and Katie Servis is retiring in May and doesn't even live on the Cape. Everything out of her mouth should be fact checked because her response to everything is 'well the FAA said'... Maybe if the county had the truth about the airports and how they are actually used, people would feel differently about whether they really 'need' it.
SueS
USA - Tue 02/04/2025 - 12:58:47

Looks like Cape Air is up training Jet Blue and American Airline pilots again,

KAPT978 just hit up Truro, Wellfleet, Eastham, Orleans, Chatham
KAPT40 just hit up Brewster, Dennis and Yarmouth Port
John
USA - Tue 02/04/2025 - 10:53:55

Alan, With all due respect you do not live on Cape Cod. You live in New Jersey. I know you are using this topic as another opportunity to talk about yourself, but please stop. This is a very important topic to many and though you would not know (because you don't live here), but planes fly at 1000ft or below every day and it is disruptive and it can feel harassing; especially when we also have the luxury of listening to leaf blowers and generators. I also think we should close the airports. We can be dismissed for saying it, but I have yet to hear anyone provide a legitimate explanation as to why either is for the greater good. 'Flying is fun' does not justify the safety concerns, the money or the environmental inpact.
John
Barnstable County, MA USA - Tue 02/04/2025 - 07:45:48

Kate/TimS
All this "Stuff" about pilots and back door approach to closing down airports is total nonsense. I remember back nearly 50 years ago obtaining my first general aviation ticket (single engine land) and my training, it was rare that I would fly less than 1000ft agl (above ground level)

On any take off, i was routinely looking for a place to set down in case of engine failure (As all pilots are taught) and while practicing I used to fly at levels of 3000 ft. Why. In case there was ever an emergency, I would have some time to evaluate and chance to set down

I find it hard to imagine that at 3000 ft I would be disrupting your daily life style and even if this were the case, I would be there one moment and gone the next

May I suggest that if you wish to sink your teeth into something of by far greater importance, you look at that Plymouth nuclear power plant ,the Kleen water situation on Cape/ Chatham.or local gov't

You should try flying one day, I bet would like it. And all that science you obtain from books including your CFR's you have a chance to put it all together and make better analytical judgements, as one uses the physics for practical situations
Alan
USAl - Mon 02/03/2025 - 20:44:39

On a related topic...If you have the tail # (or N #) of a plane and want to know who the owner is, you can go to:

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberInquiry

As Jen mentioned the tail number can be obtained from flightradar24 or flightaware. Many owners are LLCs. The principal agent of the LLC can be found using the opencorporates or bizopedia websites. If you wish to file a complaint with the FAA about the company, plane or pilot you can call the FAA's District Office in Boston at: (781) 238-7500 or visit:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/bos

As a general rule, planes must stay 1000 feet or above in congested areas, unless on take-off or landing. The CFR covers this as well as noise, circling, approaches and so on.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-91/subpart-B/subject-group-ECFRe4c59b5f5506932/section-91.119

The unfortunate reality is that pilots have an easement over our homes and there is little you can do about that one person who feels their 'right to fly' trumps your right to the peaceful enjoyment of your home. The good news is that both the airports are owned by us, and if the companies and pilots operating from these airports want to abuse their privilege, then we can always close both airports...and maybe that is exactly what we should do.
Kate
MA USA - Mon 02/03/2025 - 18:02:13

No kidding. Why is Cape Air spending more time training Jet Blue pilots over the Cape than transporting passengers? Ahh - because transporting you and me is not as lucrative. Didn't Cape Air just cancel year round service between Boston and Provincetown? I wonder what service they will drop next.
TimS
MA USA - Mon 02/03/2025 - 13:23:30

Jen
I have a friend who indeed was hired by Cape Air, within the last past year and all flight training came out of `indy. I think he was in the `lift' program, but not 100% sure, so `I have to ask. What `I am 100% sure of, was that actual flt training was out of `indy.
Alan
USA - Sat 02/01/2025 - 21:15:54

I think Jens question has been answered. None of this is widely known. The recruitment materials are vague. This youtube shows Lift graduates training out of Hyannis. I check flightradar24 and there is a ridiculous amount of Cape Air training happening here. What has me realy concerned is the naming of the airport after the Jet Blue Gateway training program. I think Cape Air has big plans and it does include passenger flights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfs1BOzJbdo
Jason
USA - Sat 02/01/2025 - 20:06:14

Hi Alan - Thanks for the response. Cape Air is a part 135 carrier and under that designation they have partnered with both Lift Academy (American Airlines/Republic) and the Gateway Program (Jet Blue & our airport's new namesake), to train future Part 121 pilots from Hyannis (not Indiana). As per Cape Air's website, the trainees must be enrolled in one of the 'pilot pathway' programs to be accepted into first officer flight training at Cape Air in Hyannis (not Indiana). At the time of acceptance into the Cape Air flight training program the trainees are given conditional offers of employment at either American/Republic or Jet Blue. Once the pilots have completed their flight training at Cape Air in Hyannis (not Indiana), they return to either American or Jet Blue as first officers. So, for clarification, the pilots training above the mid, lower and outer Cape are being trained for American Airlines or Jet Blue - not Cape Air. If anyone is curious what these non-passenger Cape Air training flights look like, you can view them live at flightradar24.com (Callsigns include: KAPT787, KAPT978, KAPT605, KAPT40). After a ten-day review, the average non-passenger flight training time above the Cape was about 7 hours per day. Putting this in perspective, Jet Blue transports approximately 25,000 passengers to/from the Cape during the summer- which would amount to about 50 hours of flight time over the Cape. By my estimation, 90% of the time anyone in the mid, lower, or outer Cape hears or sees a plane, it is likely a Cape Air non-passenger training flight - not a private plane from Chatham. And, as a heads up, Tradewind Aviation (who now offers charter flights from Chatham) is also partnered with Lift Academy.
Jen
USA - Sat 02/01/2025 - 09:43:23

Jen
I think there is more than one program happening at `Hyannis.
For example if you would like to become a 737 pilot, you could start out with the Cape air and leadership Training ACADEMY (LIFT). IN THIS PROGRAM, you head out to Indianapolis with the emphasis of working towards your instrument, commercial multi engine and 500 hour min. requirement where CAPE Air takes you under "their Wing" after successful completion you have a good chance of getting hired by Cape Air.

If you wish to head out to jet Blue, you can enroll in the Aviation Accrediation board International (AAIB) and if you are successful, the opportunity for Jet Blue can pick you up after your" sophomore" ,pre year year

Yes, can be charged with over simplification and yes there may be other programs, but this should get you started

looking forward in having you take me down to FTL

So long, have a good night, we"ll be leaving you
Alan
USA - Fri 01/31/2025 - 17:16:14

Looking for some insight here: Are you aware that Cape Air is training American Airlines and Jet Blue pilots out of Hyannis Gateway Airport? After a preliminary review, it seems that Cape Air averages about 7 hours of training flights per day over the mid, lower & outer Cape. Just curious if this was widely known. Thanks!
Jen
USA - Fri 01/31/2025 - 11:32:30

Hi Sam,I know him, we call him Rick and if you email me direct I will give you what I know.
Wayne <alongshore2002@yahoo.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 01/30/2025 - 16:51:46

Is there anyone here who can put me in touch with Rolf Abreau from West Chatham? I received a package for him and would like to get it to him. I've had this happen myself and know how frustrating it is. Yes, I'm a Chatham resident as well.
Sam Lambert
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 01/30/2025 - 13:37:10

Bill, 4.1 about 8 miles SE of York, Maine.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 01/27/2025 - 10:52:57

10:24 am Monday. Did we just have a mini earthquake? Did anyone's house shake for a few seconds?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 01/27/2025 - 10:26:26

Obviously the Pete H account is fake and is simply a loser. Dick, listen to Elaine. She knows the law. On a different tack, who knows what the highest settlement paid out by the town to an individual was to date?
Don
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 01/25/2025 - 19:10:09

Why, thank you Alan. I'd appreciate it if you'd send me your congratulations to my email address shown.
Pete Hegseth <chief.abuser44@gmail.com>
South Chatham, MA USA - Sat 01/25/2025 - 18:08:53

Pete or whom ever you are, I wish a congratulations to you.

Richard: I can only hope that you will fully come to understand "Pete's intentions":

To Restore the warriors ethos

To rebuild our Military (from one who's been there, and truly done that on the battlefield)

To reestablish Deterrence (and for those not completely comprehending this last objective. this was sort of a statement coming from the SAC playbook (The Strategic Air Command) where every crew knew they were on duty 24hrs a day , day in and day out. Signifying this fact, was on the uniform ,a patch routinely worn by all SAC members daily, of an olive branch which spoke for itself-peace and a lightning bolt indicating, initiated nonsense to any degree , from an aggressive force were to occur, would not be tolerated.

Elaine, maybe I should get you one of these patches so you can concentrate on the olive branch.
Alan
USA - Sat 01/25/2025 - 17:31:33

Not sure who made the columns for that edifice. I don't think Bill Weinz had the capacity to make them in the shop I visited. Maybe Chatham Woodworking had a hand in them. They were only a few hundred feet away from the site.
Didn't Bill eventually start a business called Airport Lumber?
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 01/25/2025 - 16:48:00

The statement Richard Ryder made about the quarterboards was absolutely true. Quite prejudiced and the work of Bill Weinz who didn't care what anyone thought. David Archibald was a wonderful carpenter who worked with Bill Weinz before settling up his own shop. It was a different time. Feelings may have been hurt, but no one sued anyone.
John whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.comch>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 01/25/2025 - 15:48:16

Oh my! Elaine and Judy P, the self-appointed arbiters of the Chatham Chat Room, calling out Dick Ryder as sanctimonious and arrogant. Irony thy name is thee!
Pete Hegseth <chief.abuser44@gmail.com>
South Chatham, MA USA - Sat 01/25/2025 - 07:27:22

Mr. Ryder-You need to stop. You apparently have absolutely no ability to censor yourself.Your personal attacks and character assassinations towards anyone who happens to pop into your head are totally unacceptable.This isn't the first time. You are neither judge or jury despite what you apparently think-reducing and denigrating a person's entire life with one of your sanctimonious-ill informed in many cases- one liners. Someone should put a lock on your computer. I don't know Mr Archibald or his family but they would have a darn good case against you for libel.
Elaine B Gibbs
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 01/24/2025 - 21:11:06

Bill Weinz had a shop at the corner of BarCliff avenue and Old Harbor Road, which I hd visited.. Dave Archibald started his career as a woodworker working for Bill. Later on, Dave moved to a shop across the street from the present OSJL.
Dave had some carved signs on the building that were racist/anti semitic. They were large enough to be visible from Route 28. No one called him out at the time.

No one would get away with this behavior today, hopefully.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 01/24/2025 - 17:41:34

And yes, Richard, it was built by Bill Weinz. Painting the church became an
issue because of the height of the building.
JOHN WHELAN <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 01/24/2025 - 16:07:32

To clarify what Wayne asked about and what John referenced, the church at the traffic lights was built by the Christian Scientists and used by them until 1996 when the Universalists bought it.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 01/24/2025 - 13:46:11

And I was basing my comment on the original question which referred to a photo involving the lights at Main & Crowell so the only church that could be visible there is the Universalist one, even though it said the other one.
J Hallgren (as user)
Clearwater , FL USA - Fri 01/24/2025 - 10:34:19

It is a Universalist Church. The Christian Scientist building is in the center of town.
Richard Gould Ryder
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 01/24/2025 - 08:59:47

Where is this Christian Scientist Church?
Don
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 01/24/2025 - 07:27:00

Richard - your constant bashing of the new administration is getting old and tiresome - especially when you're wrong as Bill pointed out. Stick to the topics at hand like John asked you to please.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Thu 01/23/2025 - 20:06:32

Yes, but the freeze exempts doctors and other professionals. It doesn't exempt the men and women who give bedside/ hands on care to veterans.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 01/23/2025 - 18:54:55

Richard you're wrong. VA is exempt from hiring freeze.

"The Department of Veterans Affairs can continue to fill thousands of vacancies in its health care workforce despite a federal hiring freeze ordered by President Donald Trump, the VA said Thursday."

https://www.stripes.com/veterans/2025-01-23/veterans-affairs-health-care-trump-hiring-freeze-16582850.html
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 01/23/2025 - 18:37:07

This affects a lot of Chatham veterans, so in my mind it is relevant .
There is a freeze on hiring new staff for the VA. This is from the new administration, who apparently don't care about you.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 01/23/2025 - 17:05:10

Town assessors records show the church as being built in 1958.
J Hallgren (as user)
Clearwater , FL USA - Thu 01/23/2025 - 10:33:02

Wasn't it built by Bill Weinz?
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 01/23/2025 - 09:07:08

I agree with Jared on the time the church was built.
JOHN WHELAN <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 01/22/2025 - 21:25:43

Wayne, I believe that church was built about 1957 or 58.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 01/22/2025 - 20:45:49

Well not to change the subject but does anybody remember when the lights at Main St. and Crowell Rd. went in or when the Christian Scientist Church was built? I am trying to date a photo for a friend. Any info would be great.
Wayne <alongshore2002@yahoo.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 01/22/2025 - 19:50:20

Cemeteries were originally devoid of trees. Open fields. What is the issue here?
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 01/22/2025 - 18:50:39

Bill, when I went to a Cemetery Commission Meeting last summer, I was introduced to a new employee named Quinn Forman who is responsible and quite knowledgeable about all the happenings going on in each of the cemeteries. Sounds like a call is in order to him to get more details. I was surprised at the amount of trees that were cut down as well.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Sun 01/19/2025 - 19:18:45

Judy, they cut down a lot of the trees (large bushes) that have been there for as long as I can remember. It just makes the place look barren.

Maybe it's so the police can see clearly as they drive through. A lot of graves seem to have been down over the last year or so. Not sure if it's just erosion or on purpose.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 01/18/2025 - 19:24:26

Bill - I was there today and saw them. Hopefully it's maintenance because there were a LOT of dead branches, etc hovering over the graves.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Sat 01/18/2025 - 16:04:52

Does anyone know why trees are getting cut down in Union Cemetery?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 01/18/2025 - 14:53:02

Interesting.
When I talked with the former skipper of the Mystic Seaport schooner Brilliant many years ago, he said he used to vacation in Harwich and one time he was inside the Monomoy Light tower when a plane was shooting at the tower. Bullets were pinging the outside, he said. Kinda scary.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 01/16/2025 - 17:12:01

The most recent entries are more what the ChatRoom is supposed to be, for sure. Some watchers could certainly add their remembrances. Don't have to leave your email address.
How about some comments about Rolf Sylvan's gardens?
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 01/16/2025 - 16:59:45

Thanks Jared. I was quite sure that the engine remains I saw were from a jet engine. Apparently too big for most Chatham men to haul off and get paid for scrap metal. Or too tough to cut up with regular oxy/acetylene torches. It was shiny even when I saw it.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 01/16/2025 - 16:53:36

As you requested; On July 12, 1949, 2nd Lt. William M. King, 25, of Kenmore, N.Y., was piloting an F-84 Thunderjet (Ser. No. 47-1475) on a gunnery practice mission over Cape Cod, Massachusetts, when he crashed on Monomy Point in the town of Chatham and was killed.
King was assigned to the 33rd Fighter Wing at Otis Air Force Base.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 01/15/2025 - 19:42:28

Thanks Jared for that.
Got any info which pilot died in a crash on Monomoy? I have seen the remains of the plane engine there on a Scout hike to Doc Keene's camp at Inward Point. There was an asphalt bullseye still visible on the sand we trekked over. It was near the crash site. Target fixation was apparently the cause.
I don't think any of my Scout friends are still around to verify this. Maybe Barry Fulcher.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 01/15/2025 - 17:31:05

On this day in 1945, Eldredge's dairy farm, Barcliff Ave;
Ensign Robert C. Baker, piloting an F6F-5 Hellcat, (Bu. No. 70161), took part in a gunnery training flight off Cape Cod, Massachusetts. At about 1:15 p.m. as he was returning to base and passing over the town of Chatham, the engine stopped working. Baker dropped the landing gear and aimed for an open field. As he came closer to the field he saw that there was a trench running across the middle of where he intended to set down so he intentionally overshot the area but wound up crashing into some trees lining the edge of the field.

Although the aircraft suffered significant damage, Ensign Baker was not hurt. Investigators believed the engine failure was due to loss of oil pressure. Ensign baker was assigned to VF-88.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 01/15/2025 - 16:46:27

Seems as though there are different rules for different people, depending on your money and "power."
Amy
USA - Wed 01/15/2025 - 12:18:42

According to what I can find, Massachusetts towns have control over how many occupants can be in rental properties. It doesn't have to be how many bedrooms, size of septic, et al. We can restrict the number of guests in a rental property if we choose. 20 in one property is excessive, and there are quite a few around town like that, and more are chomping at the bit when the sewer comes their way. As a reminder, EVERYONE of us pays for the sewage they spew, the EMT services, the police, the noise, the traffic coming and going in a residential neighborhood, etc. WE the townspeople have the ability to set the limit of how many can stay in a property. Just because a septic system or house is a certain size does not give a landlord the right to fill it up to capacity as I understand the law.
Melissa
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 01/14/2025 - 20:20:58

Melissa - interestingly enough one of our Select Board members owns such a house and was against having to register it as a short term rental. This house was advertised everywhere as sleeping 20+ people. What about the sewer issues for that many people? Kind of like another Select Board member was supposed to hook up to the sewer when the rotaries went in and didn't. When folks starting digging into as to "why" this individual did not, they were told "the paperwork must have been lost and it would be sent. Now we are told this individual is waiting on Town Meeting to see if the Town will approve the purchase of grinder pumps for everyone that needs them. What about the folks that have already forked out the cash? These are the PEOPLE this town elected to represent us. Remember this when their terms expire this spring. Another "do as I say, not as I do" . Unbelievable. This only scrapes the surface of what many of us are aware of.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Tue 01/14/2025 - 17:12:28

Can someone explain why houses that are advertised for short term rentals that have 9 bedrooms and sleep 21 people (as I just saw on an IG ad today) aren't designated as inns and zoned and licensed as such? How is the town allowing this to go on?
Melissa
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 01/14/2025 - 12:45:09

Looking forward to being back in Chatham at the Atwood House tomorrow at 5 PM to talk about the Chatham Coast Guardsmen who manned 26 foot boats and went to help folks in the MidWest 1937 floods. Names some of you know, like Al Long, Howard Matteson, and others will be seen.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 01/13/2025 - 18:00:59

Thank you Mr Moderator
Ron Baker <robar@totacc.com>
Alamogordo, NM USA - Sat 01/11/2025 - 22:25:02

Richard and others: The removed comments were extremely negative on a national political issue that isn't within the range of allowed topics (relevant to Chatham or Cape), but also used obviously fake signatures and also disparaged this site. I tolerate some things but that's not allowed.
So to my users: please refrain from making any similar comments or I might need to delete more.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
Clearwater , FL USA - Sat 01/11/2025 - 19:24:01

"Get in the Cabinet - you won't have to stay long". "The short memories of American voters are what keeps our politicians in office." Will Rogers - 1879 - 19--?
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 01/11/2025 - 18:36:58

Some of the comments that were taken down were spot on. Too close for comfort for some., I suspect.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 01/11/2025 - 17:41:30

I see on TV that Mr. Rodney Nickerson, age 82, just lost his life in a California fire. I wonder, who in Chatham was he related to?
By the way Bob, John has done some deletions very recently.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 01/11/2025 - 17:10:27

I am hoping that John H. is busily sharpening his eraser. I thought that his rules were, and might still be, worthy of following.
Bob R <zutcg444@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 01/11/2025 - 16:17:32

Does anyone else find it interesting that we have 11 million dollars in free cash? This deceitful secret budgeting plan by our Town Manager is not going over well. This appears to have been done deliberately to avoid the 2/3 vote on the COA. Why wasn't this disclosed years ago as this has purposely been built up beyond what the DOR recommends? Even Mr. Daniels, our Finance Director has questioned her about this and she gave a non answer. There are many more pressing issues right now than the COA. One of the MOLD in the school and the kids getting sick.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Sat 01/11/2025 - 11:16:34

For the record, House Speaker Mike Johnson did NOT speak at Carter's Funeral. He spoke in the Capitol rotunda when Carter's body arrived to lie in State on Jan 7. Johnson spoke both eloquently and kindly about Carter for 5 full minutes. and for 9 full days Carter was remembered. The funeral was Jan 9. None of it was disrespectful. Quite the contrary. Carter's father, James Earl Sr, was in the Army. Everyone knows-including Johnson- that Carter Jr. was in the Navy as an academy graduate, serving on a submarine. There are much larger and more serious issues facing the United States today than a potential typo to become indignant over.
Elaine B Gibbs
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 01/10/2025 - 15:53:51

I watched the replay of Tuesday's joint SB/CFAL meeting and truly believe the current iteration is one I can fully support. I urge everyone to give it a look and draw your own conclusion.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham , MA USA - Fri 01/10/2025 - 13:09:42

Richard I believe he said his father (meaning President Carter's father) was in the Army.

He said a lot of wonderful things about Carter and you just ignore that to show your dislike of the Speaker.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 01/09/2025 - 20:09:23

Speaking of ill winds, we have lived on the bluffs of Eastham for over 30 years. Not in my memory have we experienced sustained winds of over 30 mph for such a long time. We have an anemometer on the bluff, facing West, which as I type this shows the current wind speed of 34 with the highest wind the last hour of 38 mph.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 01/09/2025 - 17:47:21

How can anyone convolute the facts about former President Jimmy Carter's service ? He never spent a moment of his life as an Army member. He served in the US Navy, as I did. Way before his Presidency, which today where his life was beautifully remembered.
He served as an officer aboard a US submarine, maybe several .I have been on a diesel boat that dove to 350 feet, but not as an officer or crew.
It is impossible to defend the Speaker's Faux Pas, try as one might..
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 01/09/2025 - 17:22:30

Richard, technically the house speaker was not wrong - Mr. Carter hadn't been President when he graduated from the naval academy so his reference was actually correct. I'm sure there was no disrespect intended.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham , MA USA - Thu 01/09/2025 - 09:54:51

The House Speaker actually said that Mr. Carter graduated from the Naval Academy, and then served in the US Army. This was at President Carter's funeral! How disrespectful is that ?
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 01/08/2025 - 18:54:23

The House Speaker actually said that Mr, Carter gra
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 01/08/2025 - 18:49:26

To emulate is to match or surpass by imitation. No disrespect at all for a former submarine officer.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 01/08/2025 - 10:35:11

Show some respect there sailor for President "Jimmy" Carter. RIP.
Don
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 01/08/2025 - 08:44:56

I served under President Jimmie Carter. I have helped build 8 Habitat Homes on Cape Cod. I can only hope that our new President will emulate what President Carter stood up for.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 01/07/2025 - 19:17:42

Thanks to my cousin, who knew these Hyora folks as neighbors.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 01/07/2025 - 19:06:23

Does anyone remember Breakaway Cafe near old A&P, run by Dave Belliveau I think. What years was that in business? And the restaurant that I think took its place- The Eagle. When was that and who ran that one? Thanks
Cynthia Moore
South Chatham, MA USA - Tue 01/07/2025 - 19:04:42

Del's name was Dalia. The Hyoras lived on Barcliff at the corner of Eldredge Square. My brother and I grew up with Nick, Hank and Mark. Hank publishes the Chronicle these days.
Linda Boyce Stanton <ljstanton68@gmail.com>
Fayette, ME USA - Tue 01/07/2025 - 06:26:06

I am thinking it was Adell. The owner of the Chronicle would know. I think they lived near BarCliff Avenue. Near Millards dairy operation. By the way, there were several cows in Chatham back then, as well as a horse or two.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 01/06/2025 - 16:47:03

Richard, Bob Hyora's wife's nickname was Del. I won't try to tell you what her full name was but she was a great lady. Glad to have known her.
Wayne <alongshore2002@yahoo.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 01/05/2025 - 20:12:50

The name for the Del-Hy was that the last section was an abbreviation for Hyora. The family runs the Cape Cod Chronicle, and one of their photos, in every issue, shows the Del-Hy underway.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 01/04/2025 - 17:23:29

Ed Tucker did build the Del Hi and also John Christianson's boat the Tern. I believe he also built the Terry Al, Capt. Casey's head boat Bob Ryder would probably know for sure of that. He also built a small sloop/ cutter he kept in Ryders Cove.
Tony Murphy
USA - Sat 01/04/2025 - 08:24:55

There are plans for the CG36500 to be taken out of the water permanently and placed in a building/museum where she can be visited year round. The plans drawn up by a Chatham architect are for the boat to be in a building where she can be viewed from three different levels. The proposed site is across the street from the Orleans Town Hall.
Why Orleans? Chatham Historical President at the time, Joe Nickerson, rejected the offer. "We don't want no damned boat."
So it went to Orleans. Where it has been on display at Rock Harbor for 40 summers.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 01/03/2025 - 19:06:22

Didn't Ed Tucker build the Del-Hy? I am thinking it was the last wooden fishing boat built in Chatham. There was a chance for the boat to be set aside for posterity, but no one stepped up. Like , saving the CG36500, the Old Harbor Life-Saving Station, Monomoy Point Station, etc. Chatham failed. Good news is the Coast Guard Boathouse that was built on Stage Island in 1936 is actually going to be returned ! Within sight off Stage Island.
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 01/03/2025 - 17:33:05

Thank you Bob for the donation! I'll happily return your lanyard if you want it. That old hookset brings back a lot of memories of late nights in the shanty trying to get a trip together. Like Dick mentioned, longlining is close to dying or has already. Maybe Ted Ligenza still does it. I'm sure Peter Taylor would have a better idea. Building, rigging, and baiting trawl gear was as much an art as setting and hauling it; all a cooperative effort to feed hungry mouths. Chris Seufert did a nice set of documentaries in the 90's on various forms of fishing and he went offshore with Mike Anderson on the Bad Dog. I'll proudly display this small piece of the town's history next to some tools that Ed Tucker fashioned.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 01/03/2025 - 17:03:11

Richard, Your are so right.That brings back memories of my dad fishing. You're right that gill netting has ruined the fishing industry. Helping my dad cut herring or squid and baiting gear.
Crayton S. Nickerson,Jr <cnick2@comcast.net>
Chatham , MA USA - Thu 01/02/2025 - 07:29:00

The art of dealing with tub trawls is close to dying. Having watched my Dad and his partners Walter Love and Walter Young do it as well as anyone else, I hope there is some video somewhere about all the facets of it - like cutting the bait, baiting the trawls, using the heaving stick while setting the trawls, hauling the trawls back by hand (before the haulers), gaffing the fish over the side, etc. Bob Ryder would be an excellent narrator's as he has done it all..
Gill nets ruined the Chatham fishery, in my opinion. Once there was no more hook fishery, that and the seals pretty much dealt a death blow to fisheries from the Fish Pier as we knew it.
Who knew you could make a living harvesting dogfish and skate?
Richard Gould Ryder <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 01/01/2025 - 16:43:19

Visit Pleasant Forest Shores Website	CHAT-M-Room (TC) history for prior months

Chatham Historical Society