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Click Here to add your comments to the CHAT-M-Room (Town Common)

Just a colorful divider
The building across the street from the Airport is certainly not a new building. But, why the absence of water?
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 09/23/2023 - 19:18:27
The new property tax bills arrived today. Another increase. Thankfully we won't have to worry about what they'd be if the $11 million dollar COA was approved. Glad folks saw through this ridiculous outrageous expense and voted it down. Peter - don't hold your breath waiting for the individual from Florida to respond . Kind of like our Select Board member who wax Schell- shocked having to leave the meeting the other night when the discussion of the loss started.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/23/2023 - 19:09:30
Looks like CC5 just left the small community bank world. I don't think this is good news.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 09/21/2023 - 13:55:24
Ignore the 2 days comment, just for today at this point. New building with water issues?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 09/21/2023 - 13:35:08
The Town Office Annex, 261 George Ryder Road, is closed for the remainder of today, Thursday, September 21st due to a plumbing issue that has left the building without access to water.

What's going on? Closed for 2 days?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 09/21/2023 - 13:30:21
Where's ole George Myers of Florida? Can't accept taking an L, eh?
Peter N
South Chatham, MA USA - Thu 09/21/2023 - 10:50:06
John - you are correct. I will never get over the horrible way my brother and I were treated by the folks at the COA when we both reached out for help with our folks. I have two close friends that had the same experience with their folks. After that was "over" and a new director of the COA Board started I swallowed my pride and met with her and the new director since I had been so critical about our mistreatment . Dean Nicastro set it up. As I've mentioned here before , she looked me directly in the eyes and told me 1610 was a horrible location and seniors should not have two floors in any building. Imagine my surprise when she began to praise Mr Marsh for that wonderful donation at subsequent meetings. I told Dean Nicastro everything about that meeting and what she said - so he's well aware of the lies. Even though personally, I'd never set foot in that place or a new place, it's time for something to be done and many of us feel that way.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 09/21/2023 - 07:27:44
Well, it just happened to me so there's something technically wrong somewhere that's causing these double posts! It's like the request is getting stuck in a buffer or something. I can't find it myself so will be asking for help in next few days. And will be deleting duplicates during the night at some point.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 21:01:25
Surprised to read that comment from Judy because I can't recall ever seeing a single positive comment about the COA from her before, given the "I don't need it, so you can't have it" attitude that's been consistent from numerous opponents to this entire project, even when it was a rebuilding on existing site as first proposed.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 20:57:07
Surprised to read that comment from Judy because I can't recall ever seeing a single positive comment about the COA from her before, given the "I don't need it, so you can't have it" attitude that's been consistent from numerous opponents to this entire project, even when it was a rebuilding on existing site as first proposed.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 20:54:40
Liz - I neglected to add that many of us ARE for a COA - just not 1610. It doesn't matter anymore - folks deserve one - just not there at 1610 and not costing 11 million. We are more than willing to work with the COA as mentioned before - but they wanted what they wanted and refused to compromise. The next steps will be interesting. Many of us believe it's time for the Town to get their priorities in order and there are more important things to review than a COA at this point. It is NOT a necessity like the Police Station and Fire Station. It is a want. There is a big difference as to what the taxpayers will agree to finance. .
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 19:29:29
Liz It's too bad you are living in a glass house. Sorry to have to inform you but I did not single handedly
claim this victory. Many of us are disgusted the way the Board acted along with the other proponents and that is why the turnout was what it was and you lost.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 19:20:38
I support a criticism about a leaking municipal roof at a Town Meeting. I surmise that the building is under control of the School people, and not the Select Board. However, it is still funded by the taxpayers.
My question is: Who knew about the leak, and who should be taking care of it? And why did they ignore it? The Atwood House in Chatham still exists because owners cared about it. If the roof leaked, they fixed it.
The Town doesn't own it, thankfully.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 17:53:16
Judy, As you continue to nitpick the work of our BOS and our town employees I hope you remember that while the proponents did not have the two-thirds, the opponents did not have the majority. In fact the people have spoken and the majority of voters disagree with you. I opposed 1610 but I am in favor of a new COA. I think there are many of us out there and so I would not be too confident that this discussion will be tabled for long.
LizS
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 16:36:04
Thank you Judy!
Josie
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 13:25:38
John - this was one of the most contentious articles ever brought to Town Meeting. It's a shame the Town was unprepared for it. Steps should have been taken to ensure there were plenty of machines. Better to be "prepared" than not. There was no excuse for that and that was pretty much alluded to last night at the BOS meeting. I have just emailed our TM and Finance Director and asked for an accounting of all expenses for STM as well as all the money taxpayers have spent looking for a COA, as well as the amount of money we have paid to the engineering and architectural firms.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 11:32:47
There's a saying that: You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
That's why I have a real issue with the assertion in prior post that 'Town Manager wouldn't spend money to rent more voting devices' based on these quotes from the Chronicle:

"Monday's session at the Monomoy Regional Middle School attracted the largest attendance since at least 1990 --- maybe ever --- at a Chatham town meeting, with 1,395 voters registering, overtaking the 1,203 voters who attended the 2010 town meeting on school regionalization.
Although the town had purchased an additional 200 electronic "clickers" on top of the 800 it already owns and rented 100 more, those also ran out".

The spring ATM record shows 879 votes total for the CFAL. So the town not only BOUGHT 200 more, but rented 100 additional thus providing for a potential 25% increase to 1100 in voters for this STM, which I think is a valid estimate. I doubt anyone, including that poster, could have predicted a 56% additional voter turnout, given the numbers provided in the Chronicle quote.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 10:39:33
I think we deserve to know what the Special Town meeting costs were - along with a breakdown of salaries paid, voting devices, etc. I also want to know what the costs taxpayers have paid to date in engineering fees to architects and all costs associated with a search for a COA. I will request this info today. In addition Mr Marsh has 48 hours to remove that sign from his property from the date of the meeting. Let's see when this happens.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 10:31:24
Housing at select-board meeting. Good presentation, but it seemed the select-board was not prepared to do anything. They had no idea. Maybe if they were not spending all their time on 1610 they might have been more prepared on how they wanted to proceed.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 10:15:01
Also interesting in the minutes they had to remove that George Myers was from Chatham.

I think all the push by 1610 proponents backfired and got the no vote out.

Did Marsh withdraw the gift of the land?

Do we know the final cost of the special town meeting and all costs in design, presentation, etc since the failed vote in May?

Seth Taylor lawsuit is now moot.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 10:08:38
The BOS meeting was interesting last night. I found it ironic the main proponent for 1610 on the Board, Mr Schell "had to leave" right before the topic came up. Not a good look at all. It was unfortunate our Town Manager wouldn't spend the money to rent more voting devices, thus causing chaos. With the roof leaking in the gymnasium, no lighting on the side exit and people falling leaving the building it was quite the evening. Maybe time to get our priorities in order and maintain what we have. Time to put this COA discussion to bed for a while. The people have spoken.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/20/2023 - 07:46:35
As a former Teller in the Eastham Town Meetings, I can say that counting hand held ballots or hands held up high is not the way to go. Sure, there are two people counting the same group of voters. but there is pressure exerted on the Tellers to ensure that the votes get tallied and in a reasonable amount of time. And, you see people you know, and their vote might be different from yours. I never ignored anyones vote because I didn't agree with them, but some might have.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 09/19/2023 - 18:55:38
Is 105 votes short amount to about 9 percent of the voters ?
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 09/19/2023 - 17:33:27
What? There were leaks in the roof in the building you met in?
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 09/19/2023 - 16:57:33
It might be interesting and very worthwhile for those of us who opposed the new COA to actually attend in person as a sign of solidarity.....NOT gloating, but making sure no more shenanigans go on! I like Bill Litchfield, but it is a thankless job and I wouldn't blame him if he said "no more" who is running this dog and pony show?
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/19/2023 - 16:17:26
Bill - so many folks I spoke with were furious at the Board and Town Manager for going about this the way they did. I truly believe they had had it and wanted to prove a point. I hope it worked. We need to vote the three amigos out for good when they run again. I have never seen this town divided they way it was. It was a bad mistake on their part to waste taxpayer dollars on this ridiculous expense. They better start paying attention to maintaining what we own and get their priorities straight. If they can't do that they should resign.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/19/2023 - 14:10:31
What we need to know from the select-board is how are they going forward on situations like just happened with 1610.

Is every project going to be voted on twice? In the future we need to know that if something is voted down that's it.

No more special elections for the purpose of re-voting a failed project. There is a reason the word "special" is in the name special election. Our town select-board turned it into a political trick.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/19/2023 - 11:29:57
It might be interesting and very worthwhile for those of us who opposed the new COA to actually attend in person as a sign of solidarity.....NOT gloating, but making sure no more shenanigans go on! I like Bill Litchfield, but it is a thankless job and I wouldn't blame him if he said "no more" who is running this dog and pony show?
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/19/2023 - 10:23:06
The end of the meeting was a bit chaotic. See chronicle story. And watch tonight's select board meeting.
Amy
USA - Tue 09/19/2023 - 08:58:32
Tomorrow night there's a BOS meeting. Starts at 5:30 and is televised. I'll be curious to hear the excuses as to why they lost. Even with a PR firm, promises of raising one million dollars, having meetings at their homes, stealing our signs etc they lost. Tonight was a victory for our town.. We showed that we can't be pushed around by money and lies. . Many people worked so hard on this. Maybe the money we saved tonight can be partially used to repair the roof that was leaking down on us at the meeting.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 21:55:10
A clear defeat falling 105 votes short.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 21:32:55
Not man enough to acknowledge defeat. Says it all.
Debbie Young
East Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 21:32:33
Democracy and honesty won tonight. Thank you to everyone that worked so hard to defeat this.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 20:39:20
Seems the moderator had a hard time announcing the defeat
steve jesus <sjjesus21@gmail.com>
chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 20:11:18
Third attempt at trying to say "Wonders will never cease!"
BobR <zutcg444@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 20:09:46
Wonders will never cease!
BobR <zutcg444@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 20:03:06
The best news is the voters of Chatham will hopefully have their votes cast the way they want them to be. Tallying hand votes is obsolete.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 17:51:42
I hear that if you need a ride to tonight's special town meeting you can call Stan at (203) 921-9108 or Paula at 508-561-8110.

Remember that parking and Round Trip shuttle service will be starting at 4:45 from three locations: Chatham Elementary School, Chatham Community Center and the Dept of Public Works Building on Crowell Rd.
Dave Mott <djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 14:54:07
Has any information relative to Affordable and/or Attainable Housing been reported by the Town of Chatham. It feels like a while since the Town acquired the Route 137 property and the Buckley property. I know there was a survey about the kind of housing, but I have heard nothing since. Have details come out or did I just miss something? It almost feels like the delivery time for housing is so far in the future, it will be too late for many Chatham families that are
under pressure today.
john whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 14:37:16
John. This is a waste of time. We're not dealing in "hypotheticals". The only reason the levy went down this year is because they reappropriated and drained $8 million in "free cash" to zero, and used CPA funds that rightly belonged in the operating budget. If you think that $3.57 levy is going to hold moving forward , I have a bridge to sell you.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 14:34:45
Guess I didn't make it basic enough. If hypothetically the budget remained the same as prior fiscal year, but total overall valuation increased 10%, the total town wide taxes raised MUST remain identical as in: Valuation + 10% = tax rate - 10%. Or in another way using different numbers: $4 value x $5 tax = $5 value x $4 tax. Both generate $20 in revenue. It's a fiscal seesaw in the total overall equation. It's REQUIRED to remain balanced exactly.

However, how that is distributed will certainly vary due to valuation changes but on the individual property level. In that example, if one property now pays $100 more due to higher value, another property or properties MUST pay $100 less in total to offset it. Again, the fiscal seesaw.
Any budget increase is then distributed in the same ratio and way to all properties in town as the previous budget was. That's the ONLY way taxes are raised for everyone! It's certainly NOT because of revaluation ALONE which is apparently a common misconception.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 13:57:28
Today the Town of Chatham web site stated contradictory Special Town Meeting start times. The Town Meeting Central page indicated a Special Town Meeting start time of 5:30 but the Town web site calendar indicated a 6 PM start time.

Today there was an announcement on Ocean 104 radio station stating a 5:30 start time.

The warrant states a 6 PM start time.

The Town Meeting Central page has now been updated reflecting the 6 PM start time.

It has now been CONFIRMED - Special Town Meeting is TODAY AT 6 PM.

If the Town can not accurately manage its communications, this causes concerns of its ability to manage the construction and operation of a new COA building.

Vote NO.
dan young <danyoung97531@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 12:08:27
John you are way behind on this one. The Town property Valuation increase (17%) affects that the assessment increase. The Finance Director has acknowledged ONLY upon direct questioning that her office has had the FY 24 assessments for each property for 2 weeks but they have not been posted to the Assessors Card- only the Assessors Summary which most people can't find. It is simple math. If you apply the previous $3.88 rate to you FY 23 assessment and then the $3.53 to you FY24 assessment- your taxes are going UP.- I've checked a number of properties and the increase is about 10-12%. That is a hefty increase by any standard. It has been disingenuous too only talk about the tax levy reduction and not the increase in assessments.This was never pointed out to taxpayers so they could look at their tax increase coming in their next bill- BEFORE voting on the COA. There's usually more to the story when it comes to full transparency of government.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 12:02:05
What matters is the amount of the check that the tax payer has to pay. It does not change the fact the town is over spending.

If you get a pay raise you can choose to save more or go out and buy a new luxury car. The town is choosing the new luxury car.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 10:58:28
Are these meetings live-streamed?
Greg
LOLETA, CA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 10:33:40
(Oops! Quick Notes didn't give me indication of how many characters so I got trimmed.)

The ONLY reason I am posting this is to try and show that a given percentage change in value does NOT imply that SAME percentage change in property tax. It certainly varies for every property! So those saying a higher valuation results in higher taxes without qualification are giving a flawed and thus false argument!
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 09:00:52
Based on a conversation I had with somebody recently about taxes and property values, and because my cottage property is somewhat unique, I decided to look up a friend who lives nearby in South Chatham and closer to Rt 28. Unfortunately Chatham's property appraiser website doesn't give nearly as much historical information as the one for Pinellas county in Florida, thus used Zillow to get much of the data. The most recent year they have is 2021, but for my purposes here, that will suffice. It's a three bedroom, two bath home, 1500 square feet, built in mid-50's and bought in 1999. Nothing fancy...just a typical house from that era.

I'm going to round these numbers off for convenience in typing and the percentages are compared to previous year in Zillow chart. I took a few samples with about 4-5 years between them:

in 2001, tax was $900 (down 17%) on $131K (up 17%) value. An example of how increase in value does NOT increase tax in all cases.
In 2004, tax $1100 (up 23%) on $252k (up 75%). Note the large percentage discrepancy!
In 2011, tax $1550 (down 7%) on $406k (down 9%).
In 2017, tax $2000 (up 2%) on $396k (up 2%).
In 2021, tax $2350 (up 6%) on $512k (up 10%).

So in those twenty years, their value went from $131k to $512k, a 391% rise, yet their taxes went up from $900 to $2350, which at 261%, I agree is most definitely a significant increase due to increased budgets but it's NOT 391%. Thus they're linked but NOT as closely as some have claimed since the value jumped an additional 130% or 1.5 times the 261%.

Oh, and using a CPI inflation calculator, $900 would be $1377 in 2021 and $131k becomes $201k due to the 53% cumulative inflation. Remove inflation and the tax increase was 208%.

The ONLY reason I am posting this is to try and show that a given percentage change in value does NOT imply that SAME percen
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Mon 09/18/2023 - 08:58:17
Fix it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 09/17/2023 - 18:55:50
I will be going to the Special Town Meeting tomorrow night to vote NO for a new C.O.A. building because we simply do not need it. What I don't understand is, how people can vote yes on this without knowing the complete cost or do they just not care. If that is the case, then I know of a bridge for sale or I am sure that there are plenty of people out there who would love to build you a house and not tell you what the cost will be till they are done....That just doesn't make any common sense, does it.( Common sense, Good sense and sound judgement in practical matters)
Janice Susan <redpeterbilt7@yahoo.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/17/2023 - 18:35:49
Oh wait, that is too expensive? Surely you jest.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 09/17/2023 - 17:31:39
I do hope there are wireless vote counters at the special Town Meeting tomorrow. The days of voice votes and holding up your tickets are over, especially in a matter of this magnitude.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 09/17/2023 - 17:21:50
Bill - 100% agree. Fire and Police stations are necessities. I don't agree with the sizes of either building; however, a COA is a WANT and NOT a necessity. Time to stop the train wreck once again.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/17/2023 - 17:11:46
Another Chronicle quote,

"Voters have approved new facilities for police, fire and town workers, and show no hesitation in endorsing programs that benefit the town's young people. It's time to provide for our seniors."

4 over built previous projects is not an endorsement to keep over spending

Vote no on 1610!
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/17/2023 - 16:11:18
Chronicle editorial on 1610

"And, of course, candidates who fail to get elected are free to run as many times as they please. So bringing the proposal back to Monday's special town meeting is not out of line."

Oh really! Do they get to call a special election after losing!
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/17/2023 - 15:57:06
If you know something about this case, then please report it to law enforcement.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Sun 09/17/2023 - 09:56:34
Richard, Everything
steve jesus <sjjesus21@gmail.com>
chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/17/2023 - 06:43:25
What are you folks trying to hide? What is there that we don't know?
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 09/16/2023 - 18:15:38
Bill B - thank you. Richard - there's much more to the story than meets the eye. Discussing this in a public forum does no one any good. I agree with Steve and Bill P. Next subject please!
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/16/2023 - 18:06:23
When I declare a person a racist, it is due to what I have experienced while serving 20 years of active duty in the U.S., Navy. And living for long enough to be able to identify it. To wit, when I was the director of food service at the US Naval Hospital in Memphis, TN, there were 32 black men and women (civilian employees) working in the kitchen and serving meals to patients and staff, seven days a week. Their average age was 55 years. Many had health issues. As I got to know them, they told me of things that they had gone through to get where they were in life.
Some of my fellow white Navy officers, who were from the South, were still exhibiting racism. This was in 1974.
The Goose Pond incident did happen, and to try to cover it up as horseplay is denial. Lawyers have to scramble for any plausible explanation they can come up with.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 09/16/2023 - 17:34:11
Judy,
I was aware of that but wanted more voters to know about not leaving early
through word of mouth.
Bill B
chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/16/2023 - 12:07:35
Bill P, I agree with your assessment about the Goose Pond issue. Way too often people and media blindly jump into the deep end of the pool when an issue comes up like this one long before the facts are known. You would think thatthay would learn from past reversals to never leap to conclusions. Time and time again initial opinions have proven false, sometimes to the grave detriment of the accused. This never stops the armchair quarterbacks, this means you Cape Cod Chronicle, from opining about things they know nothing about.
steve jesus <sjjesus21@gmail.com>
chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/16/2023 - 06:53:57
I think some are all to quick to call everything racism. I thought so after the initial story.

But now some more facts. I just read the article in the Chronicle and the boys were friends, in fact the boy victim was over his house the day before. Sounds like rough horseplay getting out of hand. Sorry for being politically incorrect.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/15/2023 - 19:38:45
Wayne Love must have known better than to restrict people from exiting in case of a fire. Emergency exits are never blocked.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 09/15/2023 - 17:34:05
Bill - No worries - both sides can play that game!
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/15/2023 - 16:48:56
Remember when Love would chain the doors shut so no one could leave.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/15/2023 - 13:17:11
I was told not to leave the STM until it was adjourned because the PRO/YES voters could ask for a reconsideration vote if Article 5 is defeated with a NO vote.
How is this possible?
NO means NO !
Bill B
chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/15/2023 - 12:11:51
Pete:
No, Jimmy and I were good friends and went to Stockbridge School at UMASS together. My point was he was very successful and respected for his knowledge of plants.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 09/15/2023 - 08:03:16
I hope your not picking on Jimmy Cardoza as he was a great buddy back in the day. We would hang out with Burnel Harty and on saturday nights after smoking cigars,riding around town in a big ol 1930's car we would head for Clara's on a saturday night for a plate(with ten scoops of ice cream) to end out the night.
THE THINGS YOUNG GUYS WOULD DO BACK IN THE DAY!
pete skipper <PETER SKIPPER@COMCAST.NET>
CHATHAM , MA USA - Fri 09/15/2023 - 07:33:21
At some point, this may be it, I would like to tell you all of the success of the Chatham Cardoza Family. Where Jimmy Cardoza became the Head Gardener of the Hallmark Cards Crown Center in Kansas City, MO. His Mom , Jennie was the beloved Cook at Chatham High School.
Ss far as Charlie Cardoza, brother to Jimmy, is concerned , I would expect some ChatRoom folks will fill in on what happened to him.
My point is these folks, whether they were black or not, did succeed.
I am ashamed of Chatham people who encourage racism.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 09/14/2023 - 18:07:10
I agree, Richard. Thank goodness there was a good samaritan that cared and stopped the situation from becoming even more dire. Remember, if you see something, say something.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Thu 09/14/2023 - 12:18:42
John H:
It should get attention, as it was a despicable act of racism.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 17:50:55
Personally, I liked the food at Captain's House. There is some good food on the Cape. Fish n' Chips at the Jailhouse. Grumpy's. Buca's. The Impudent Oyster. My perspective is not quite that of a tourist, but an an in-law. The nicest times to visit are Spring and Fall, no doubt. We were there on the 4th just once; my sympathies are with you.
Greg
LOLETA, CA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 17:34:52
Last week Greg and I had an engaging phone call with John. Thank you, John for explaining the history and the mechanics of this website. Good luck with the website nerd cooperative and keep up the good work.

Emily, we have stayed at the Captain's House Inn a few times. It is so neat that your grandparents stayed there in 1860. It is a beautiful place. We love the gardens and the smell of trees, flowers, and the sea.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail>
Loleta, CA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 16:32:35
FYI: The incident at Goose Pond just got major/national media attention as of this afternoon via NY Post.

https://nypost.com/2023/09/13/boy-14-charged-with-trying-to-drown-black-teen-in-racist-attack/
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 16:16:50
The proponents of 1610 have stressed the need for a larger COA facility.

What programs have Mike Schell, Frank Messina, Rick Leavett and others attended that warrant a new and larger space?

What programs have they not been able to attend due to size limitations?

The proposed new COA given its size and financial magnitude is not warranted.

Vote NO.
dan young <danyoung97531@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 12:29:59
Emily: A old(passed) friend of mine once told me,"That just because a cat has kittens in an oven, does not make them muffins" { Harvy Bloomer ] LOL!
Barry Fulcher <barsyl4041@comcast.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 12:12:28
Noteworthy numbers in the Town Clerk's end of August report: 6364 total year round residents, down from 6607 a year ago; 6000 registered voters, down from 6212 a year ago. It's pure speculation that we'll have a "growing senior" population any time soon.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 09:01:05
I am going to have to try and contact the nerds that operate the servers that this site runs on because there's something really weird going on recently! It seems that somehow previous posts are being repeated and I don't think it's my actual users doing it because it's occurring too often.
This site runs on a host called HCoop and it's not a business but a group of tech nerds who wanted a web host that did what they wanted so they formed a cooperative to do so. Thus, tech support isn't as easy to get for someone like me but it's been a cheap way to run the site.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 08:41:37
Whoa! Generalizations about generations are subject to specifics. For instance my Chatham family history. My grandparents honeymooned at the Captain's House on Old Harbor Rd in 1860. My father was born in 1900. I was born in 1941 missing being bon here by one month. That adds up to 3 generations of Chatham history......163 years. Plus being a Mayflower descendent.......does this count?
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 05:19:22
Whew....just as I was feeling some relief from our popular and crowded summer, I had a bunch of rude, ignorant drivers and walkers as I drove Main St from the Congregational Church around the loop to my house. J-walkers in groups holding up hands to make me stop, blue plate specials drivin over the double yellow line, one car parked facing the wrong way, ten SUVs over the line, a Range Rover passed me before the lighthouse I, parked next to a truck with loud music and engine running, on Bridge St everyone walking had their backs to traffic....two with toddlers in bicycle trailers, then, when I slowed down to 15 mph to cross our fragile bridge a red Jeep passed me.........on the bridge going 40+ It is dangerous to live here in the summer! Pamphlets?, chamber handout? Police details? Something needs to be in place. Those teenager ambassadors in yellow jackets this summer were a joke.....too young to interact and be,proactive with th idiots who have discovered Chatham.....the new Hamptons, Nantucket or New Canaan. I am so saddened by this and I am a VOTER.......1610 win will be th complete ruin of our Town!
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/13/2023 - 05:18:29
Rick Leavitt needs to check the voter registration numbers- we are NOT a town of 30,000!!
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 20:31:31
Thank you, Jared, for being the only honest opponent of the new CFAL to speak at tonight's Select Board meeting.
George Myers
USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 19:11:43
At the Mayflower shop, across the street from the Post Office and the Chatham trust Company and the drug store you could send or receive a telegram, transmitted by the Marconi /RCA site in Chatham across the street from Ryder's Cove. My Dad used to deliver telegrams from the Mayflower Shop, on his bicycle, to wealthy people at CBI. He said they were very poor tippers.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 18:45:11
I recall The Mayflower actually carried newspapers and magazines among other necessities of summer. And there was another store behind the post office that sold papers, magazines, postcards, etc. An actual bait shop next to the Five and Ten! The abundance of gift shops, many carrying the same items and clothing stores seem to dominate now.
Judith Winters
Harwich, MA USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 17:50:25
I just tried to depict on this site what downtown Chatham was like in the mid fifties, by listing the essential businesses that were in existence between the rotary and the Mayflower shop. Not sure what I did wrong, but was not allowed to post what I thought was fact based stuff.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 17:12:53
John, to answer your question about who should initiate the discussion I frankly don't know. I do know what we shouldn't repeat.In the past, working groups of predetermined "stakeholders" have been formed consisting of the Chamber, real estate brokers, property owners that lease space to retailers,(sometimes neither even live in Chatham),and traffic and parking people weighing in. And the result was basically "what can we do to increase tourism". It should be a ruthlessly objective analysis of both the very real financial and environmental costs and negative irreversible impacts that we are now seeing so clearly. And Jared said it so well. It makes little sense to destroy the town to salvage some seasonal businesses who cater solely to tourists, a number of which have multiple stores off Cape or out of state.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 16:33:50
Elaine has articulated the concerns of many of us who are long-time home owners and lovers of Chatham and Cape Cod. I used to say I enjoyed the change in rhythm of living here year round. Now I wonder if that sentiment was because I was younger, and had more energy. Or has the town changed so greatly, that the changes affect me in different ways? On Saturday, I drove through Chatham to my old neighborhood. The changes there in N. Chatham (Chathamport for some of us) are shocking. Ginormous houses, swimming pools, and manicured properties with brilliant green lawns, are now standard. In trying to analyze my reaction, I felt sadness. My old neighborhood no longer exists. Change is inevitable, but not always good.
Judith Winters
Harwich, MA USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 14:12:14
Oh boy I am thrilled to read John's statistics of tickets issued and revenue gained! Wow, that enormous sum, WOW at $50 bucks, we are the laughing stock of all our visitors.......chump change compared to a Manhattan garage for the day! We have catered to the wrong crowd and when we lose Cape Fish and Ben Franklin......what then. Elaine and Jared are right! Add the loss of the Mayflower Shop, Forgerons for shoes, grocery stores on Main St....things people need.....HERE! I met a nice couple this past week ad Irving my huge Catalpa Tree. Invited them in my house to look over the book of 100 of these trees planted in Chatham 1918. In trying to explain where 5 of these trees were located I said Barn Hill Rd by Larry's PX. They never heard of it! They have owned property in Chatham for a long time......but they did know where Du kin' Donuts is! This may sound like I am against change, I am not, but I am against ruin.
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 12:47:38
Great post Elaine. About twenty years ago, I read a report that I believe was conducted by the Friends of Waterways. In it, it pointed that at the time, commercial fishing, shellfishing and all of the jobs that supported it still outpaced tourism. I'm sure at this point, real estate surpasses both fishing and tourism. This report was not widely circulated because as I understood, it "didn't support the narrative" that the sky would fall if we all didn't ascribe to the tenets of unbridled tourism.

John W, your acknowledgement about wintertime hardships is valid, but I want to take your point in a different direction. If you intentionally target your business toward tourists over locals, then should you not expect a lack of business in the off season? Wouldn't this be the reasoning for Cape Fish or the 5-10 remaining open all year but the high end restaurant or art gallery does not? You can't be upset with the long term population of a place not patronizing your business when you've deliberately catered to a transient population instead.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 12:12:06
Folks
As a follow up to my last post and somewhat for laughs and giggles, it one were to take parameters from both sides of the Sr. Center issue and feed it into CHAT GPT, I wonder what would come out, a compromise, or a conclusion leaning to one side or the other. Whatever the case, my guess it would be less political and who knows, maybe someone out there has already performed this little experiment. If not, it might be a wise idea before the next vote is taken. And there are folks on this site whom I know, who could do this.

And taking the artificial intel, just tiny step further and as an example, my guess is that many of the folks here also use "Facebook" now known as as META. More than a part of this name change has come about, because META recognizes the importance of a 3D virtual internet and is moving towards this.

Another example, That COVID vaccine you are taking that is adjusting for the changing forms of the mutating virus and while there was existing knowledge to change the RNA structures, AI has enabled Science to understand how the virus is transforming much more clearly and at faster speed. The company Moderna, a virtual pharma company has lead the charge in this effort. Too technical for you, maybe but get used to it, remember how Sr.s we're reluctant to even consider using the internet, soon you will be faced with how to employ AI into your daily lives.
Alan Wirsul
USA - Tue 09/12/2023 - 08:58:20
Elaine/Robert
Your visions of A beautiful Chatham of the past and how it has transformed during recent years is just the beginning. Just as the web took us to a new world in 10 years, AI is moving 10 times faster than the web (hand held black Berries changed the business world just 10 years ago, today these are considered antique junk, the laptops are in many cases, obsolete after 1 year of ownership).

The current major driving force behind AI, is LLM (Large Language Modeling) in which the magnificent 7 ( Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, NVEDIA etc) are chasing with accuracy and lighting speed. Within 2 years or less, this tech.will blow right thru parking meters and any revenue they could provide.

The idea of of CBI outliers, non resident investment properties, green character, increases in density or tourism in Chatham, will be ruled by LLM. And just as most folks our age know Amazon as merchants or a. book store, these will become businesses that will represent a mere 10 % of their business, if that. Amazon-has the tools to enable LLM and they have-bet the farm on it.

So what's the answer, somehow Chatham needs to get out in front of LLM, maybe consulting with a computer company who is already using LLM, so that Chatham can be developed in everyone's best interest. These battles over Sr. facilities, in my opinion and yes I have no skin in the game, are way too focused. One might think I am crazy now, however like it or not. AI and LLM will drive Chatham folks and sooner than they realize it, there will be almost no stopping it
Alan Wirsul
USA - Mon 09/11/2023 - 20:27:35
Elaine, think about Main Street in February. About half the stores closed and those that are open usually struggle to break even. I don't believe Main Street merchants could survive without tourism. Of course, we should recognize there is a tipping point. We could be at it. The discussion you suggest is overdue. I wonder who should initiate it.
john whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/11/2023 - 19:02:28
As an 83 year old Chatham kid, I am in total support of what Elaine has to say. I have seen the transition from a summer place for wealthy people to stay at CBI, to the entire town of Chatham being an outlier of CBI . I have suggested parking meters in the past, but was poopooed as it would cut down on visitation. Hello? These visitors have the means to pay for parking, especially at the Fish Pier.. To bring some revenue to the town.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 09/11/2023 - 18:11:32
I cannot ever recall the Town actually ever doing a cost-benefit analysis of tourism. It has always been assumed we need it to survive. The fact is the Town only generates about $3.75 million from the Hotel/motel tax (including Short Term rentals and the meals tax. Add to that miscellaneous revenue for Transfer Station/Beach passes, parking tickets etc and it is under $4 Million annually. We do not generate any retail revenue. Compare that with the significant cost for increased staff required for emergency personnel and recreation; overbuilding of municipal infrastructure- larger municipal buildings,road widening,sidewalks,bike paths,roundabouts. Add to that the negative impact on our environment because of it-loss of green space and trees,historic character,increased density directly impacting our drinking water, sewer, costs for short term workforce housing, wear and tear on our roads, traffic jams and the overall decline in the quality of life for full time residents who can't get a parking space to go to Town Hall, the post office drug store, food store or bank. And yet we continue to promote tourism. This year was the worst in my 40 year memory. At what point will we totally drive out full time residents and become only a town full of non resident investment properties? Before we lose the unique essence of Chatham completely, we should have that discussion.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/11/2023 - 15:44:28
Sorry, should have included this in prior post for comparison:
July 2022 shows 275 parking tickets issued and 2022 YTD (to July 31 vs Aug 4 in 3023) as 319.
And 2022 YTD locations had 72 - Main St, 10 at Town Offices, 36 - Colonial, 50 + Depot Rd, 24 upper Fish pier, 12 - Seaview
So I believe these CSO's definitely did a service by helping enforce parking violations,
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Mon 09/11/2023 - 10:28:03
Follow up to parking tickets:
PD report for July (latest avail) shows 559 issued that month of the 697 YTD to Aug 4 (date of report).
YTD shows 237 on Main St., 95 at Town Offices, 91 Colonial lot, 53 each Depot Rd & upper Fishing pier, 21 Seaview Rd.
Those are the most popular locations, as others were less than twenty.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Mon 09/11/2023 - 09:17:46
I think that Chatham, like other tourist destinations, does sometimes suffer from
rude and thoughtless behavior by visitors. We also have similar behavior from a few people who live here. The contribution to Town finances from summer visitors is the tail that wags the dog. Without summer visitor and tourist-related revenue, Chatham would not enjoy a AAA bond rating and we, who live here year-round, would all be paying significantly higher property taxes. Despite the inconveniences some visitors cause, we need the revenue to provide the services we all want and need.
john whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/10/2023 - 22:27:10
The four CSO's weren't a joke and were quite successful according to Chief Anderson when I saw him recently. They provided assistance to visitors and locals and merchants but also wrote numerous traffic tickets on Main St area.
One of the CSO's that I spoke to told me that one day he ran out of tickets in his book because he had written so many, I think forty or so. The few times I went downtown during the summer, I saw multiple vehicles with parking tickets on them. I don't have any numbers but I suspect it's probably the most that have been written for a number of years.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sun 09/10/2023 - 20:21:58
Is Mr Myers in Florida a proxy for T Clarke of Berkeley CA? Who are the beneficiaries of of new COA who are silent here but vocal elsewhere such as carefully crafted letters to the Chronicle and very impressive legal analyses from a career as a loafer, that guy? He's a PFAS expert, too. When they show you who they are, believe them.
Peter N
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/10/2023 - 15:31:37
Emily, you seem to be in the majority in not supporting FREE SOUP to the Chatham Men's Club. The horror!
Peter N
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/10/2023 - 14:34:57
Whew....just as I was feeling some relief from our popular and crowded summer, I had a bunch of rude, ignorant drivers and walkers as I drove Main St from the Congregational Church around the loop to my house. J-walkers in groups holding up hands to make me stop, blue plate specials drivin over the double yellow line, one car parked facing the wrong way, ten SUVs over the line, a Range Rover passed me before the lighthouse I, parked next to a truck with loud music and engine running, on Bridge St everyone walking had their backs to traffic....two with toddlers in bicycle trailers, then, when I slowed down to 15 mph to cross our fragile bridge a red Jeep passed me.........on the bridge going 40+ It is dangerous to live here in the summer! Pamphlets?, chamber handout? Police details? Something needs to be in place. Those teenager ambassadors in yellow jackets this summer were a joke.....too young to interact and be,proactive with th idiots who have discovered Chatham.....the new Hamptons, Nantucket or New Canaan. I am so saddened by this and I am a VOTER.......1610 win will be th complete ruin of our Town!
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/10/2023 - 12:18:23
My water bill just doubled is it because I'm hooked up to town sewer now or bidenomics?
Josie
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/10/2023 - 07:16:21
Some might say, "conspicuous by their absence". Supporters are losing the fiscal battle with the project costs, despite the view from 1200 miles away. Those of us here see what's actually happening.
Peter N
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/10/2023 - 02:32:02
Some might say, "conspicuous by their absence". Supporters are losing the fiscal battle with the project costs, despite the view from Florida. Those of us here see what's actually happening.
Peter N
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/10/2023 - 02:22:41
This is a bit delayed because of my schedule but I would remind Judy P that her post on Thursday was totally incorrect when she said "I mean no disrespect" because it was extremely disrespectful of George and also used language that was inappropriate here, so I was highly tempted to remove it for a personal attack violation. Remember that most derogatory remarks about a person are considered that. One can be critical of what is written, but not the writer.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sun 09/10/2023 - 00:55:01
Too bad two FiCom members who previously supported the CFAL were absent yesterday.
George Myers
USA - Sat 09/09/2023 - 20:33:45
Please remember signs don't vote.
Amy
USA - Sat 09/09/2023 - 10:31:42
Peter N - drop me an email. It's sad to say that our signs are once again being stolen or vandalized. This happened in the run up to the Annual Meeting in May. I believe it's indicative of the pro 1610 membership to say or do anything to win attitude. I called them out in my Annual Meeting comments as illegal, adolescent and an embarrassment to our community and an affront to our right of freedom of speech.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/09/2023 - 10:11:58
I too was born in 1941 and, having washed ashore on the Hawes House Beach 18 years later, I'm one whose family has not lived here for generations. In my opinion, everyone "counts". Not to be "politically goofy", but I was amazed at yesterday's 3-3 Finance Committee vote on the COA Article. Much courage was on display.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/09/2023 - 09:50:33
Whoa! Generalizations about generations are subject to specifics. For instance my Chatham family history. My grandparents honeymooned at the Captain's House on Old Harbor Rd in 1860. My father was born in 1900. I was born in 1941 missing being bon here by one month. That adds up to 3 generations of Chatham history......163 years. Plus being a Mayflower descendent.......does this count?
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/09/2023 - 05:07:25
Where can you get the Just Vote No Again lawn signs? They are growing in number by the day.
Peter N
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/09/2023 - 03:25:24
I am so pleased to hear memories of the Stonehorse and Pollock Rip lightships! Yes, I am the Emily that Bill Amaru wrote about in this summer's Chronicle. A very seasick pre-teen was off- Loaded from Harold Claflin's FV to spend the day with the Coast Guard. Couldn't swim but climbed that rope ladder in heaving heavy seas! But in my college years, sleeping on the attic floor by an open window......that foghorn was music to my ears!
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/08/2023 - 17:03:00
A generation is considered to be 20-30 years. So, a 60 year old person has lived 2-3 generations.
George Myers
USA - Fri 09/08/2023 - 16:51:15
Greg - I have sent you a private email since I do not care to share my family history here. Many longterm users here are familiar with my family and their heritage.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/08/2023 - 13:51:53
Judy, It is unlikely that most respectful users of this site consider my posts to be "rantings" unlike other users' posts.
George Myers
USA - Fri 09/08/2023 - 10:04:30
Now we are getting somewhere. Judy, how many generations have you lived there?
Greg <conners.greg@gmail.com>
LOLETA, CA USA - Fri 09/08/2023 - 09:00:08
George - unlike you, the majority of us that have lived here for generations realize the serious implications of our tax bills increasing. It's a shame you folks refuse to compromise and you truly believe the bs you all spew actually means something. I actually pity you for living in Florida and doing nothing but trying to promote this farce of a project miles away. Is your life so uneventful in Florida you can't focus on what needs to be done there? I mean no disrespect but you should realize you are not helping the cause by by by continuing your ranting posts.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 09/07/2023 - 21:31:15
That phrase is so appropriate, as Bernie shut his radio off so he was not listening to others who were telling him how to proceed.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 09/07/2023 - 17:37:23
Beach plum bushes march to their own drummer, like the phrase on the Coast Guard Cutter Bernard C. Webber plaque, "Determination Heeds No Interference".
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 09/07/2023 - 17:02:41
For those watching Hurricane formations, LEE is forecast to soon have winds of 155 mph. It is on a similar track to Hurricanes Carol and Edna who made landfalls on Cape Cod in 1954. Not to say this storm will be a repeat, but with 69 years having elapsed since those destructive storms, and so many trees that have done so well on the Cape, we all should be paying close attention. Hurricane Bob in 1991 caused electricity in Eastham to be out for nearly two weeks. Bob's winds did not exceed 100 mph.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 09/07/2023 - 16:56:18
Richard - The beach plums are very plentiful this year. They however taste bland.
dan young <danyoung97531@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 09/07/2023 - 15:48:06
Elaine
Not sure why you are in some ways always on the attack mode with John , I see only 2 good smart and decent people trying to do the right thing. No matter, it will fast become a situation where CHAT GPT will be placing Chatham tax facts for evaluation and review, it's not doing so already
Alan Wirsul
USA - Thu 09/07/2023 - 11:04:00
Where is it written that a select person/politician cannot be an activist for issues he/she sincerely believes in rather than one who is impartial, sits-on-their-hands and lets the chips fall where they may? Though I seldom, if ever, agreed with him on issues, Seth Taylor was that kind of activist select person/politician and was likely frustrated by those who weren't.
George Myers
USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 23:00:30
It seems this 1610 opponent is trying their best to force me to shut down this site based on their repeated attempts to post things that don't follow the rules.
I will try to do my best to keep it going but I would hope those who have properly expressed their opinion here in opposing the project might attempt to locate and dissuade this person from doing this.
It's NOT censorship to require users to use a valid name and make comments that are relevant to the topics that this site was intended for, which doesn't include quotes from old literature or such.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 21:04:51
Interestingly enough when one of my brothers built a house by the pond he had to go through a TON of hurdles to appease the conservation folks. I don't see how the destruction of the huge hill there would be approved - but "rules are for thee and not the pushers of this monstrosity".
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 20:19:34
Judy P - your post violates the rule of the Chatham Chat Room, in that we don't want to impugn the integrity of our bought-and-sold select board member, who's in his first and last term, that one?

Jimmy B
Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 19:49:05
Has anyone asked the Chatham conservation commission (a statutory body, not like the BOS) what their position is putting this intensity of use within that proximity of Bearse's Pond?

Rules for thee; not for me.
Jimmy B
Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 19:25:51
Debbie - I just read the column you are referring to. I was always under the impression that Selectmen were to remain impartial. This particular one has done everything he can to influence folks- with his "exaggerated statements/mistruths". . I hope all of you against this outrageous expense remember this when his term for rs-election is up. This is an individual that can't be trusted.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 19:12:27
Forgot to add to prior notice that after repeated attempts, this 1610 opponent finally made one that followed the rules sufficiently to be posted, though with an obvious fake name but it's a valid personal one.
So while this person believes I am censoring their posts, this post proved otherwise because it wasn't breaking the requirements that everyone has followed for over 17+ years.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 18:00:08
Notice: Today, because of the repeated attempts by an opponent of 1610 to make posts that violate the rules on monikers and personal attacks this site has had since I started it in 2005, two legitimate posts were unfortunately blocked. I proactively emailed the first user and added the post retrieved from log files.

Got a phone call this afternoon from Emily C who had the second post. Explained the issue and added her post after extraction from log files.

I am monitoring the error files and should a legitimate user have a post that fails, please contact me if needed.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 17:35:24
Alan: It was Munson and Carleton.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 17:22:45
I don't think Chatham's standard should be that it's not as bad as Clearwater. "Challenges of a congested, noisy roadway" is quite "valid". One does not measure noise levels by driving through the corridor with windows up and the radio on. 1610 is 400 ft from the airport where over 500 takeoff and landings of 10 seat Pilatus charters (mostly in the summer months when seniors would be"actively living"outdoors) can be heard revving their engines 2 miles away at my house. That's "noise". Add to that boat haulers and 18 wheel delivery trucks downshifting to enter the roundabouts 25 ft from the front of the proposed building. All of us have been stuck in backed up summer traffic going through the roundabouts, witnessing near misses by out of state cars. That's "congestion".
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 17:10:55
I am so pleased to hear memories of the Stonehorse and Pollock Rip lightships! Yes, I am the Emily that Bill Amaru wrote about in this summer's Chronicle. A very seasick preteen was off-Loaded from Harold Claflin's FV to spend the day with the Coast Guard. Couldn't swim but climbed that rope ladder in heaving heavy seas! But in my college years, sleeping on the attic floor by an open window......that foghorn was music to my ears!
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 17:01:41
You want Chatham stuff? I have it.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 16:34:01
In an old lightship book, I found that the former Handkerchief Shoals Lightship, which was at the southern tip of Monomoy, logged 22,000 vessels passing by her in one year ! Hard to imagine. This was around 1895.
All of these vessels were either North or South bound and would have had to pass by one of the Life-Saving Stations then in existence on the Outer Cape. Old Harbor was not in service until the summer of 1898. The Monomoy Point station was not occupied until 1902. The Keeper there was Joseph C. Kelley from Chatham, the youngest Keeper in the entire USLSS at that time.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 16:31:43
Thurman Monson played for the A.s in1967. Carton Fisk played for Orleans in 1966. Those were the days
Alan Wirsul
USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 14:08:00
Bill Richardson played for Cotuit in 1967 and was a fan of the Cape Cod Baseball League, and in particular the Cotuit and Chatham franchises, for many years. He attended several Chatham games most every summer, including our recently concluded 2023 season.
Steve West <steve.e.west@me.com>
Chatham/Austin, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 13:17:43
Does anyone else remember when former New Mexico Governor and United Nations Ambassador Bill Richardson played for the Cape Cod Baseball League in the late 1960's? Thank you for your service to our country, sir. Rest in Peace and condolences to your family and friends.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail>
Loleta, CA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 13:07:23
Hard to imagine being in favor of senior folks hitting the curbs at the roundabout in front of the job lot. Oh, wait, you're headed to South Chatham ...

anyone here ever try to get in and out of Larrys PX in July? How about Corey's ice cream shop? Dunkin?

I know: TOTALLY INVALID COMMENT if you're pro-1610
Jimmy B
Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 12:08:25
There's a number of valid points from those opposing 1610 but as someone who's familiar with other locations, I find this comment totally invalid: " Challenges of congested, noisy roadway (right turn only)"

The right turn only improves safety, and someone might have to travel another 1000+ or so feet total to use the western roundabout. That's nothing compared to the extra two+ miles I must go to reach one business in Clearwater because of the roadway! I also doubt it's any noisier than any other section of 28 in Chatham.
That part of 28 is NOT congested when compared to downtown by the community center and even in summer, the amount of traffic at 1610 area is similar to the minor roads I use in Clearwater to AVOID traffic and congestion!
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 11:19:17
The pro 1610 guest editorial states "Chatham has one of the largest, if not the largest, senior population on the Cape". Really? Larger than Barnstable? Falmouth? Sandwich? Yarmouth? Mashpee? Dennis? Brewster?
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 10:58:22
Sometimes we can hear the bell buoy by the harbor mouth of Humboldt Bay. It is a wonderful sound. I do remember listening to the foghorn by Monomoy. It was a reassuring sound that was accompanied by the Chatham Lighthouse shining through the window lulling us back to sleep.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 10:48:42
Jimmy - my question exactly. I had to laugh when I saw that letter this morning. Just VOTE NO AGAIN
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 10:35:24
Just because someone can borrow money, does not mean they should.

Another variable to consider, the experienced knowledgeable Finance Director is retiring. Brings into question how the Town can truly manage all this debt and maintain the AAA credit rating.

VOTE NO on 1610.
dan young <danyoung97531@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 09:49:35
Wasn't it Randi P who asked for the second vote last time we voted No to the 1610 COA? Said she voted No, but wanted a re-vote? So, what's up with her LTE in today's Chronicle? When they show you who they are, believe them.
Jimmy B
Chatham , MA USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 08:30:53
Occasionally when the wind was right you could here the whistle buoy at Monomoy Point in Stage Harbor
Tony Murphy
USA - Wed 09/06/2023 - 08:19:42
Well said Richard! Nice to see some old Chatham stuff instead of this political goofy stuff.I miss the fog horns a lot!
Wayne <alongshore2002@yahoo.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/05/2023 - 19:25:18
Here is some non controversial info:
The Lightship STONEHORSE LV101/WAL 524, served off the coast of Monomoy in Chatham from 1951 until 1963. She was moved to Portsmouth, VA where she is now the PORTSMOUTH and is on display there. A lot of present day ChatRoom attendees and lurkers must have heard her fog horn, as we also heard the lightship POLLOCK offshore on foggy nights. Each had distinctive sounds. You mention "lightship "today to some, and they rightfully have no clue.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 09/05/2023 - 17:52:13
George: Desperation is when you flatter yourself for creating "turmoil".
Judith Winters
Harwich, MA USA - Tue 09/05/2023 - 13:07:54
Imagine the senior center with an addition to the rec center. It could have 2 floors. You could use the existing elevator, saving money. On cold winter days the gym would be a nice walking area. Remember senior mall walking. Now we have a nice all in one warming center for winter emergencies. This could be done for under 4 million.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/05/2023 - 10:18:37
Sorry George, 2/3 vote is the rule (2/3 also reaffirmed by town meeting vote). Close does not count. Therefore you do not have a valid argument and is the definition of desperate as stated in your post.

Maybe take a break until you have some new arguments. Posting the same thing over and over just pollutes the forum.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/05/2023 - 10:03:12
It's interesting the turmoil I can create in CFAL opponents with facts.
George Myers
USA - Tue 09/05/2023 - 09:57:42
George - doesn't matter. The vote lost. You and others can't accept it. No other town would pull these shenanigans. It doesn't say much for our town leaders. Once again - give it a rest - your posts are tiresome.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Tue 09/05/2023 - 07:07:34
Reviewing past posts from a few days ago, I found this statement in one post
" Because of the Valuation taxes are going up in our fall bill despite the much touted reduced tax levy-and by a lot".
Unfortunately, that's not completely true and something that both Jill G and Alex H an others have attempted to educate people on numerous times when discussing tax rates. Yes, it certainly can raise the taxes of some/many properties but it also will LOWER the bills of others to offset it. Reevaluation has NO effect on the towns tax revenue. However, because the total amount of taxes raised is driven by the budget, any increase there must be distributed system wide. That aspect will raise taxes.

If the budget remained the same as prior year (for example only), the total taxes town wide would remain the same but will definitely be reallocated differently based on any valuation changes.
A tax rate of $3.50 per thousand on a $1M house will generate the same revenue as a $7 rate on a $500K house in a simple example.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Tue 09/05/2023 - 02:07:43
If anyone is "desperate" concerning the upcoming September town meeting, it is clearly CFAL opponents. Opponents recall that a MAJORITY of voters voted in favor of a new CFAL 3 times, the May 2023 vote missing the required 2/3 by a single vote -- 587 to 295. More telling is that the 2023 CFAL article garnered 228 more yes votes over the 2021 vote compared to only 70 no votes.

I again expect to be criticized for this post as most CFAL proponents are sometimes subjected to withering criticism and insults, such as "cranky juvenile" and even the Texas putdown of "all hat, no cattle," a clear sign of desperation.
George Myers
USA - Mon 09/04/2023 - 23:43:32
Mary - several folks on that list were not listed on the registered voter list of 2023. In addition to
my deceased friend, Mr Schell's wife was listed twice. This leads many of us to further question the accuracy -which we have done. but it really doesn't matter does it? They are still collecting signatures as of today at the dump with no verification whatsoever if they are actually voters. More desperation.
JudyP <Judylpat@comcast.net>
West Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/04/2023 - 20:22:41
It's becoming obvious that there's some people who are misusing and harassing this site by not following the basic rules that have existed since 2005. It's only been a extremely rare case where I have had to delete a post yet in last two days, I have had to do it multiple times. It's NOT censorship in these cases because it's been invalid postings for at least two reasons.

And as to what EM said, there's NO possibility of "him stepping away" because it's my intellectual property, but I certainly agree with his final sentence about returning discussion to other topics.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Mon 09/04/2023 - 15:21:45
I speak for myself only though I suspect many users will agree that, if a user is dissatisfied with the Moderator, the Rules of the Room, or the way they are interpreted and enforced by the Moderator, there are at least two options -- stop using the site or create your own. I appreciate that the Moderator pays out of pocket to keep the site on the internet and spends the many, many unpaid hours to write and revise the code, monitor the site daily, if not hourly, and interact daily with users when they have a problem, e.g., when the text of a post will not post or when they dispute his interpretation or enforcement of the Rules, etc., etc., etc.
George Myers
USA - Mon 09/04/2023 - 13:12:54
Judy, the ad is not "mine," as I saw it in the Chronicle and was impressed by how many people I did know who were on it so I was asking about the "fake" names.But I guess it really doesn't matter--
Mary D
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/04/2023 - 10:47:45
I find it ironic that theirs a couple individuals on here with superior attitudes that there whole goal is to stir up ~~~~~~~~ . They keep poking and prodding till they finally hit a nerve and then dig in and don't let up. It's obvious what these bored individuals are doing but Mr Moderator lets it go on then slaps the hands of the person whose had enough. If he silenced the instigators who are relentless it would never get to the point it does . If Mr Moderator can't see this or be more impartial there is the option of him stepping away . This started as a wonderful site with many great people , sadly we've lost a few to many and some that also refuse to engage anymore because of a few individuals.
Let's let this site go back to what it was with Chatham history and issues and do away with the goading and ranting from a few bored individuals and their superior attitudes
EM <emallowes @comcast.net >
USA - Mon 09/04/2023 - 07:00:10
NOTICE: The following post was removed because:
1) It VIOLATED my original rule here prohibiting use of monikers as signatures.
2) But also, because it contained provable false accusations against me for enforcing the NO moniker rule on a prior post.

And since this occurred when some users hadn't seen that post, I decided to show it here to prove that it was justifiably removed.
I will address a couple of other issues in this post later but suffice to say that I (when posting "as user") was most recently just agreeing with two other regular users who found errors in two posts, one for CFAL and one against.

--------------
"It's difficult to remain silent while the self-appointed arbiter of what can, and can't, be expressed in this forum selects to promote his own advocacy as a proponent of the current proposal for the new COA facility. Apparently, he feels that a parenthetical insertion of *(as user) is a get-out-of-jail free card to censor comments *he* doesn't like. This is a form of disinformation. Beware: fellow Chatham taxpayers, the dialogue has been hijacked, when the voices of likes of George Myers are preferred over others at the discretion of J. Hallgren (as, hey, John how about as CENSOR)? Beware: when they show you who they are, believe them.
Stillwater <Lurker@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 21:43:15"

J Hallgren (As Moderator)
S Chatham, MA USA - Mon 09/04/2023 - 04:04:56
Mary D - if you want to send me your email I'll be happy to tell you who the deceased individual is in your ad this week. I'm not posting it here. I will tell you he died the beginning of June and was a neighbor and good friend of mine. For his name to be published by the folks sitting at the dump and collecting signatures of non-voters along with this for the past few months speaks volumes .
JudyP <Judylpat@comcast.net>
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 20:31:13
Well - I'm still curious why two posters on here - one from Florida and one from California who have no voting rights want to continue to argue with everyone. Enough is enough. The majority of folks who post on here do not see the need to spend 11 million dollars. The tax rate is driving people out of town . Those on fixed incomes have had it. What part of that don't you understand? Anybody (including the Town) can borrow money - whether it's a wise decision or not is a different story. If the two folks here from Florida and California continue to push this - how about you tell us why you left Chatham since you apparently have such a vested interest in this COA and no longer live here?
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 19:55:07
Ok folks: Do NOT make a posting using a moniker name such as "Ridgevale Lurker" and compound that error by personally attacking me in it. That's totally unacceptable here.

And it appears that some users still cannot distinguish between a comment about a posting vs negative comments about a person. They're NOT the same! Referring to the person in a derogatory manner is totally different than questioning the contents of a posting.

Regarding my USER post: I stated simply that a mathematical error had occurred. Nothing more.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 16:53:06
Speaking of averages, the average depth of water on Cape Cod Bay along the Eastham shore is 5 feet, given the fact that the normal high tide is 10 feet, and the average low is zero. Once in a while we will have a 12 foot high tide. Averages can be very misleading . A 6 foot tall person could drown in tidal water with an "average" depth of 5 feet.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 16:50:27
I sense that Richard Ryder and perhaps others are wearying of the discourse between me and opponents of a new CFAL at 1610 Main. So, I will close with a few observations - and a summary of relevant financial facts about Chatham and the Cape, which may take a few posts. Sorry, Richard. My hope is that I can move just one on-the-fence Chatham voter to vote yes at town meeting.

One recurring argument of CFAL opponents seems to be that the CFAL capital project will "force" some taxpayers on "fixed incomes" to sell their homes or create some kind of financial catastrophe for them or the town.

I am skeptical that an added initial tax burden of 8 bucks a month (decreasing annually) for a new CFAL will "force" any Chatham taxpayer to sell their home. Should anyone actually be "forced" to sell because of financial straits, it is much more likely the result of the increasing cost of gas, groceries, health needs and the many other necessities of life.
George Myers
USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 16:39:17
"Fixed income" is defined as "a class of assets and securities that pay out a set level of cash flows to investors, typically in the form of fixed interest or dividends." There are likely few, if any, retired Chatham taxpayers who are actually living on a fixed income, especially if they are receiving SSA with its annual COLA increases. Still-working taxpayers are not considered living on a fixed income because their incomes typically increase over time.

In my view, Chatham's financial management staff is perhaps one of the best, if not the best, in Massachusetts. Since 2008, Chatham has maintained its AAA S&P credit rating and was one of the first Cape towns to develop and implement a comprehensive waste water plan. Of the 352 cities and towns in Massachusetts, Chatham is the 4th town to have its 3.57 tax rate already submitted and approved, thanks to its financial staff.

Now for a non-myopic view of the relevant DOR financial facts -- tax rates, average tax bills and assessed values. Chatham's 2023 tax rate of 3.88 (3.57 in 2024) is the lowest on the Cape, far lower than the 2023 Cape average of 6.50 (including Chatham). In the decade from 2014-2024, Chatham's tax rate has declined 30% from 5.08 to 3.57. During that decade, no other Cape town had a tax rate below 5.50, except Dennis in 2023 (4.67).
George Myers
USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 16:38:52
As I noted, Chatham's average 2023 tax bill of $5,254 is less than the Cape average of $5,721 and is also the 10th lowest on the Cape. Chatham's average tax bill, like a few other towns with large summer resident populations living in multi-million dollar homes, is inflated by the tax bills of those residents. While I could not locate any relevant DOR or Chatham data on this issue, it is unlikely that the average assessed value of the homes of full-time residents is $1,354,123.

Of the 5 towns with lower 2023 average tax bills than Chatham, Barnstable at $5,076 has an average assessed value of $718,017 about half that of Chatham, Dennis at $3,474 has an average assessed value of $743,855, Eastham at $5,193 has an average assessed value of $631,112, Harwich at $5,236 has an average assessed value of $788,574 and Yarmouth at $4,429 has an average assessed value of $546,115.

Although some may dismiss this point, I would much rather pay about the same tax bill as the taxpayers of Barnstable, Eastham and Harwich for an investment in a home with an average value almost twice that of their average home values.

The point of all this is that one cannot look at what happens tax-wise only in Chatham. No matter because some oppose a new CFAL - anti-development, anti-developer, anti-roundabouts, too near airport, no need, bad topography, unknown future, all of the above - from a financial standpoint Chatham is much better off than any town on the Cape and probably most cities and towns in Massachusetts. If anyone can locate a city or town in the US with an average tax bill that decreases annually, let me know.
George Myers
USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 16:38:21
John,I was going to let this go but you insist on bringing me into this. I did NOT make an error - never mind a "similar" one. and there were not just "2 errors".The data from the Financial Director and Treasurer for FY 22-24(3years) shows it will be a MINIMUM of 47%. I am not in the habit of putting out ANY data that has not been produced by the town-despite the fact the number is likely closer 55%.It would be misleading. Confirmed facts matter. If you are NOW apparently taking the position in your defense of Mr.Myers, that his numbers were even worse than readers thought, say it. Because that is the case. You,in answering Jenn B, taking another opportunity to question my credibility by using my name, is a poor defense of Mr.Myers and speaks for itself. You have violated your own "rules"-which you quite publicly reprimanded me for by questioning my credibility and thereby my integrity and motives.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 14:01:56
Jenn B: As far as I can see, George only made two errors in his calculations by using the wrong numbers but correct formula, but note that Elaine made a similar error in her remark to him by using a method of calculating total percentage increase that is completely mathematically flawed, because you simply cannot add multiple years percentage changes together.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 13:14:38
Summer resident, Bill Richardson, former Gov. of New Mexico, and Ambassador to the United Nations died in Chatham on Friday. A good man of integrity. We need more like him.
Judith Winters
Harwich, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 12:54:39
Mr. Myers -- There is someone else you should be apologizing to for your repeated errors ... Elaine Gibbs.
Jenn B. <jbuck@applewild.org>
N. Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 11:37:09
Well said John W! I was lucky enough to see him a few times over the years, the last being at Fenway in 2018. He was indeed an American treasure and will be missed.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 11:24:36
Gorgeous day! Hope our tourists enjoy their last hurrah!
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 11:01:44
On a less serious note, we fans of Jimmy Buffett will miss him. There have been very few things more fun that tailgating before a Jimmy Buffett concert. Maybe you dressed up and maybe you didn't. Maybe you had a few drinks or maybe you didn't. Probably you knew the words to every song. No expense was too great if you decided to convert your car or truck to a "Margaritaville Vehicle. Jimmy passing away ends an era of escapism for so many.
John Whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 10:12:41
I don't vote there and should maybe mind my own business, but I am wondering: is it possible to put a valuation threshold on the extra revenue needed to support this investment? Some method of exempting homes below a certain value? My mother-in-law sold her North Chatham home after her husband died at least in part because she could not handle the tax bill.

Maybe there is a difference in perspective reflected in some of the comments below. Where conservatives see an expense, the moderate-to-liberal crowd may see an investment in the future. Yes, developments like this are more likely to help others than ourselves, but it will help includes loved ones and friends. Okay, I will go back to California now.
Greg <conners.greg@gmail.com>
LOLETA, CA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 09:55:04
Hey...Tony Murphy! I need my notebook on the Chatham Catalpa trees back! Thanks
Emily Cunningham
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 09/03/2023 - 04:00:00
Debbie/John, Mea culpa.
George Myers
USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 22:26:49
I will have to agree that Debbie has the correct math because you have to multiply 7.49 by 1.55 to get 11.6 result.
And I also like that Debbie had followed the Jack Webb quote of "Just the facts, ma'am" in posts.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 21:25:57
George, I am so sorry, but you have divided by the wrong number. To find percent of change, you subtract and then divide by the BEGINNING number. In this case, you needed to divide by 7.49, not 11.6. At least this is what I taught in my math classes. Difference divided by original number.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 20:50:48
Debbie, Here is my calculation per the formula we are using with the numbers you mentioned.

11.6 minus 7.49 equals 4.11

4.11 divided by 11.6 equals .3543 multiplied by 100 equals 35.43 percent rather than 55 percent.

To check: 11.6 times .3543 equals 4.11 plus 7.49 equals 11.6

I used DOR's Chatham assessed value data for FY2021-FY2023 to calculate the percent increase for that period:

1,354,123 minus 1,010,109 equals 344,014 divided by 1,354,123 equals .254 x 100 equals 25.4 percent.

The calculation for the FY2022-FY2024 period is:

1,580,091 minus 1,117,752 equals 462,339 divided by 1,580,091 equals .2926 x 100 equals 29.3 percent.

Hope you agree.
George Myers
USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 19:54:17
Things to look forward to on the Lower and Outer Cape this Fall:
Beautiful weather!
Beautiful sunsets in late October and November; a resolution of the COA problem in Chatham; picking cranberries along the sides of the bog ditches; MANY fewer people crowding most everything; visitors to our historic sites having the time to spend to ask questions and, to wait for our answers.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 17:07:24
George, while you're recalling John Whelan's post of 8/25, I am recalling your post of 7/12.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 15:25:38
George, Your formula is the same as the one I used. So I assume you'd agree that if the total Chatham tax valuation increased from $7.49 billion to $11.6 billion the increase is 55% (rounded).
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 13:27:55
Elaine, the distinction that you obviously missed was that his "ad hominem fallacy" and hysterical remarks were NOT specifically directed to you but to multiple people, thus under my rules, which apparently some people disagree with, that is not a personal attack. If you chose to be included in that group, that's your issue.
However, your response in the post that I was discussing and going to remove was directed only to George and nobody else. Thus it certainly does qualify as a direct personal attack.
There's no inconsistency in those rules.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 12:57:23
I'd be very interested to know the false names on the proponent's ad, particularly someone who isn't even alive! Why would these people make up names?
Mary D
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 12:32:55
What you miss is some people can't afford the constant increases and are "forced" to sell their home as a result. Taxes are not in a vacuum. You need to add all the other rising costs.

The added value means nothing if you have to move from a home you lived in for 40 years or your family has had for more than that.

Finally I find it scary the town position that all is good because we have more borrowing power.

"The town has more than $275 million in additional debt capacity, more than the town could add in a year "or even over probably 10 years," she said."

"Select board member Jeffrey Dykens, who asked for Heilala to present her analysis of the town's debt, said it's clear that the town's borrowing is very carefully managed."

Keep approaching that number and see what happens to the town credit rating
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 12:04:55
Debbie, I use this formula:

To calculate the percentage increase

First: work out the difference (increase) between the two numbers you are comparing.
Increase equals New Number minus Original Number.
Then divide the increase by the original number and multiply the answer by 100.
Percent increase equals Increase divided by Original Number times 100.
George Myers
USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 11:30:42
Many of us prefer to think of the glass as half full rather than half empty. I am among the former. Thus, when I receive the tax bill for my home, I am pleased if my assessed value increases, especially if the town's tax rate decreases. Why? It means the market value of my home is greater should I choose to sell. If I choose not to sell, it means my net worth increases and I leave a greater legacy to my descendants.

I pointed out in an earlier post that Chatham's average 2023 tax bill of $5,254 is less than the Cape average of $5,721. It is also the 10th lowest on the Cape, only Barnstable at $5,076, Dennis at $3,474, Eastham at $5,193, Harwich at $5,236 and Yarmouth at $4,429 being lower.

Looking at it in another half-full way, the 2023 Cape average assessed value of $860,611 per dollar of the Cape average tax bill of $5,721 is $150.43, whereas Chatham's average assessed value of $1,354,123 per dollar of Chatham's average tax bill of $5,254 is $257.73. So, for every tax dollar paid by a Chatham taxpayer, their assessed value is greater than the average Cape taxpayer's by $107.30.

A final point. Summer residents bear the brunt of taxes in Chatham. I have inquired of the assessors whether summer residents' tax data can be separated from that of full-time residents. Apparently, that is not possible or probably worthwhile for assessors. However, I suspect that if that were possible, the average tax bill for full time residents would be lower, perhaps substantially, than summer residents.
George Myers
USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 11:15:28
With all due respect, posts that ridicule others personally do not advance the CFAL discussion.

I maintain that it is illogical to calculate the % assessed value increase between individual fiscal years then add the % increases to arrive at a total % increase in assessed value.

Example: A person purchases a home in year 1 with a given assessed value. Each year their assessment increases. In year 10, the person is asked what % their assessment has increased since they purchased the home. Most people would answer based on a calculation of the % increase from year 1 to year 10 rather than calculate each annual increase and add them to arrive at the answer.

Of course, a person may wish to know (and calculate) the % of their annual increases but adding them does not accurately reflect the % increase over time.
George Myers
USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 11:14:53
John, I find your rules inconsistent when it comes to Mr. Myers. Everything I said was based in fact in response to Mr.Myers attacks on anyone- including me- opposed to the COA for legitimate reasons in an attempt to defend ourselves and the facts. He has accused me of "ad hominem fallacy"(I suggest you look it up), hysteria, desperation, and worst of all manipulation of numbers- all direct attacks on my integrity. I don't take kindly to that. If they aren't personal attacks, I don't know what are. When you don't call him out for it, I believe I have every right to.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 11:12:52
And to others: Had anyone, including George, made those exact comments to another user here, my response and action would be exactly the same! Unfortunately, because of how this site works, and my schedule, I won't be able to remove that offending post until tonight at the earliest.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 10:00:29
Elaine: Just so you're aware, you made certain comments in that post that definitely fall into a personal attack and thus that post will be deleted at some point. I have tolerated other things you have said but that's over the line I had established when I took over this site, and thus if anyone would get a timeout, it would be you. George has not resorted to anything personal like you did.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 09:40:16
"Wrong again George" is getting quite the workout. How many times do you have to be wrong before you finally get a timeout? And what do you mean "it depends on how you want to calculate it"? There's ONE accurate way to calculate percentage increases George. Your 23:32 post last night was wrong-again. ALL of it. My numbers were/are correct. And they are year over year increases. I did have a novel approach to arrive at my numbers.I didn't do my own calculations and I didn't just make them up to save face. I actually looked to sources rather than winging it.In this case-the Finance Director/Treasurer report presented to the Select Board. Pretty clever huh? 47% may even be 8 points low based on the actual Valuation numbers but they're the Town's numbers. Every assertion you've made in all these posts, challenging everyone with cranky juvenile sarcasm, has apparently been based on you misunderstanding the basics; inaccurately calculated,obsolete numbers; and false premises. A waste of everyone's time.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 07:58:58
All hat- no cattle. Perfect and true.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 07:08:32
Calculating percent increase in valuation, if using the numbers previously posted (7.49 billion and 11.6 billion) for the increase, my result is a 54.87% increase. What numbers would generate 26.2%?
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 09/02/2023 - 06:36:41
Thanks, John W, recalling your post of 8/25.
George Myers
USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 23:40:09
Elaine, Depends on how you want to calculate it. The % increase between FY2021 to FY2023 is 25.4%. You want to use the FY 2022-FY2024 values instead, it's 29.2%. Adding up the year-to-year increases helps you make the overall increase appear worse than it is. The % increase in assessed value in the NINE years from FY2015 to FY2023 is 68%.

In any event, your FY23 and FY24 percentages are wrong. FY23 is 17% not 20% and the FY24 is14% not 17%.
George Myers
USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 23:32:39
Elaine, some might describe Mr. Myers as "all hat, no cattle".
John Whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 22:13:15
George I am not required to answer any of questions. You are getting tiresome. However, for the record, you are wrong-as usual. FY22(10%)FY23(20%)FY24(17%). That would be 47% (10+20+17) Got it? Do your homework before you hit the keyboard. PS: I decided to look up the definition of adhominem fallacy: "argumentative strategies that involve criticizing an opponent's character,motive, background or other personal attributes instead of their argument's content" and a photo of you popped up under a palm tree-in Florida- still not paying one dime of Chatham taxes
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 20:49:59
The only data that I have is that 5 Chatham clients attend day care in Orleans. Also, the Orleans COA Director has stated that clients attend their 4 day per week program 1 or 2 of those days. The requirement is for a minimum of 1 staff person per 6 clients. So, with a 5 day program, 6 per day times 5 days means up to 30 clients. (30 if everyone attends 1 day.) If anyone has an estimate of how many Chatham Seniors would need, want or benefit from day care, I'm unaware of it. It certainly would be helpful to know that number prior to voting.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 20:36:20
Elaine, You claim that "Valuation has increased a whopping 47% in the last 3 fiscal years alone." If you are using DO data, please check your math. I calculate an increase of 26% from FY2020 to FY2023 using DOR data..
George Myers
USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 19:57:41
Debbie, Perhaps you are correct on the 30 clients, but it would be good to know the source of your data. Do you know how many Chatham seniors and their caregivers need, want or would benefit from adult day care? I don't but someone at the COA must have at least an estimate.
George Myers
USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 19:45:06
I don't believe that Orleans has the luxury of a 28,587sf community center. I wonder how they manage with their 8,745sf COA which has only 1 multipurpose room. Dennis also has no community center, and its population is 15,000. As for a Chatham day care program, up to 30 clients would be needed with a 5 day program having clients attending 1 or 2 days per week. That's a big leap from the current 5 clients going to Orleans.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 13:19:49
Sorry, last paragraph incomplete.

One final point, the DOR data that Debbie cites also shows that the average tax bill as a percent of income is the lowest on the Cape for Chatham and, not surprisingly, Dennis.
George Myers
USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 12:22:57
It is not surprising to me that few CFAL opponents, except Debbie, respond to facts, but rather resort to "ad hominem fallacy." Look it up. And hysterical, the sky is falling claims for the unknown future.

Here are some more FACTS to chew on. Orleans with a senior population of 3,153 (49.1% of total population) compared to Chatham's 3,114 (46.4%), per US Census data, has budgeted $845,000 for COA operating costs in fiscal 2024 compared to Chatham's $441,000. To me, a Floridian, that is embarrassing. To most CFAL opponents, probably not.

BTW, I also think it is embarrassing that Chatham has to bus its citizens who need adult day care to the Orleans COA. I suspect, though I have no facts or survey data to cite, that if Chatham had a CFAL with adult day care, more than 5 caregivers with a senior needing that care would take advantage of it.

Speaking of average tax bills, Debbie accurately cites the DOR 2024 average tax bill for Chatham as $5,461. Eastham is the only other Cape town that has an approved 2024 property tax with an average tax bill of $5,164.

Let's compare the Chatham 2023 average tax bill of $5,254 with Barnstable at $5,076, Bourne at $5,529, Brewster at $5,393, Dennis at $3,474, Eastham at $5,193, Falmouth at $5,272, Harwich at $5,236, Mashpee at $5,354, Orleans at $7,264, Provincetown at $8,605, Sandwich at $6,876, Truro at $6,775, Wellfleet at $6,088 and Yarmouth at $4,429 for an overall Cape average of $5,721.

I would say that you Chatham taxpayers are the luckiest taxpayers on the Cape to live in a progressive, financially well-managed, beautiful town like Chatham, perhaps the most desirable town on the Cape. BTW, I have not done the research, but I suspect there are few, if any, towns in the United States where annual property taxes decrease.

One final point, the DOR data that Debbie cites also shows that the average tax b
George Myers
USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 12:19:41
Again, Knock down the existing building, build new foundation to hold a brand new modular building designed to specifications, finish site work, open for business. Less than six months from demo to opening. Get the egos out of 1610 and build something logical. 1610 is all about keeping up with the Jones's.
Another thought.
If some of the proponents who are wealthy, and there are a few, feel so strongly about 1610, how about them kicking in half the cost? Maybe I would support the project if they did.
steve
chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 11:00:55
Excellent advice David , keep the eye on the ball. The constant drivel from someone without an iron in the fire should be ignored on this issue. He's already made his point but we will be paying the tab . it's time to tighten the belt a little
on this one
EM <emallowes@comcast.net>
USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 10:26:46
David: Good advice.
Judith Winters
Harwich, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 10:02:52
Mr. Myers' statement that the reduced tax rate "helps to ameliorate the increase in assessments and taxes" is an admission that the tax increase as a result of the new assessments will exceed any benefit from the tax levy reduction and taxes are in fact going up. He also ignores the tax impact of the hundreds of millions of dollars those on fixed incomes will be hit with over the next 3-5 years for the still undisclosed costs for sewer, water,school repairs, and affordable housing when the money is actually borrowed. And finally it's very telling that Mr. Myers apparently has no problem with the very real possibility of taxpayers on fixed incomes potentially having to sell their homes as a result when he doesn't pay a dime to Chatham. They're simply collateral damage. Nice.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 09:01:27
To my compatriots who oppose 1610, don't get distracted by arguing with the Floridian, who's just a mouthpiece for a local 1610 supporter who wants to lurk in the mud. What truly matters is that there is no justification for a new 10,000 sq ft building. Take the high road and don't step into the mud. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 08:46:00
Debbie - many of us agree with you and will vote no - AGAIN. Mr Meyers - maybe time to focus on Florida . Many folks here are struggling financially. None of us need an oversized building costing
11 million. There are "needs and there are wants". This is not a need.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 07:44:20
According to the DOR, the average Chatham single family assessed value for FY '24 is $1,580,091. The average tax bill is $5,641. I don't think that includes the CPA tax and the OPEB tax. Seniors on fixed incomes who are long time Chatham homeowners are in a bind with their rising tax bills. The proposal for an oversized new municipal building when there's space for some COA activities in an existing building is totally perplexing. And, in my opinion, it's definitely not fiscally prudent.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 09/01/2023 - 07:14:57
Thanks, Debbie.

Judith: I wonder why you care whether I am invested in what happens in Chatham. All I can say is that I am invested in Chatham and have been for most of the 60 years I have resided and vacationed in Chatham. After all, I am married to a descendant of the South Chatham Eldridges.

Elaine: Although assessed values have increased over the past few years, you fail to mention the fact that the tax rate has decreased about 30% between 2021 and 2024 which helps ameliorate the increase in assessments and taxes over that period. Thanks for acknowledging that the town can carry the debt for the CFAL.

I sense a bit of hysteria in your comment that "many homeowners could lose their homes because of the increase and are being totally ignored." I suspect that if anyone with a $1,000,000 home falls $95 short of their tax payment because of the CFAL, someone will help. Let me know if that happens to anyone.

While you might think me "desperate," I am only interested in the town making good on its promise years ago that, after the new fire station, seniors would get a new senior center.

Finally, I seemed to have pulled some anti-Bill Marsh folks out of the woodwork. I'm sure there are more. BTW, Jared, I never even met Bill Marsh, much less idolize him.
George Myers
USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 23:25:11
All throughout this interchange of facts and opinions on this site regarding the COA future, you all have expressed yourselves in a fashion that my Chatham High School English Teacher, Mrs Josephine Crowell, and my Sixth Grade Teacher, Mrs Ellis, would be proud of.
Kindergarten was optional/not available then.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 19:46:03
For information regarding seventeen Eastward developments in Harwich, seven are in E. Harwich. See article printed in Chronicle on Aug. 16 which accurately reports information about these developments, and concerns of townspeople.
Judith Winters
Harwich, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 17:29:03
Jared, and what is really infuriating is we diverted sewering of our homes to connect with East Harwich, and now Marsh's developments there are on sewer and that treated effluent is discharged into Cockle Cove. Phase I of our Wastewater Comprehensive plan was to have roadway infrastructure (gravity pipes, force main and pump stations) completed for two-thirds of out 8000 residential and commercial properties(5300)by FY2030 to meet MEPA mandated nitrogen levels.Since 2012 we have completed only 793(15%) of those 5300. Those 793 have cost $100 Million. Town staff has not provided the hundreds of millions it will likely cost to meet the 2030 objective despite repeated requests. The Town's priorities are inexplicable.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 14:17:05
The COA should have been left where it was and renovated. Start at the bottom and work your way up. A palace in West Chatham is not starting at the boTown. I am also not supportive of a building thus large, whose use will either drop off and/or the Town will fail to maintain in the long term.

Also, I am not embarrassed about expressing my dislike of Bill Marsh or Eastward. They can go to hell for all I care. Apparently Harwich citizens are also getting tired of the craters he leaves in town. They are an embarrassment to the town. Simply, he bought property that he ultimately couldn't do anything with. He tried to pawn it off on the taxpayers. If any of you think he's "gifting it to the Town in honor of his mother" you're seriously not paying attention. Mr. Myers, I am happy not to be beholden to the avaricious developers that you clearly idolize.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 13:49:04
Elaine/Judy
If there is one thing I always enjoyed about you, you have a fantastic way of looking into the future, especially when it comes to municipal spending. And the "little guy". I don't know where you got your crystal ball from, but your last sentence will prove to be very interesting.

And Judy, there are not a lot like you either, there's no buckling in you,
Alan Wirsul
USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 13:27:00
Mr Myers, what I find "desperate" is someone who does not appear to pay one dime in Chatham property taxes, so hell bent on spending other people's money. The $64,000 question is "Why?"
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 13:09:48
Interest rates will likely be raised for the 12th time in a year with every sector impacted including fuel.The Town's property Valuation has increased a whopping 47% in the last 3 fiscal years alone, from $7.49 Billion to $11.6 Billion, increasing individual property assessments accordingly. Because of the Valuation taxes are going up in our fall bill despite the much touted reduced tax levy-and by alot.Homeowners on fixed incomes who foot the bill will be affected the most when all the approved spending hits over the next 3 years. It's totally immaterial if the "Town" can carry the debt. Many homeowners could lose their homes because of the increase and are being totally ignored.
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 12:57:36
The Community Center was closed this morning in order for a permanent generator to be installed by a crane.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 12:11:19
I am not sure if the Community Center has a generator, which would be needed if it were to be a sheltering place.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 11:57:43
Our neighbor suggested that I pick the plums off his tree before the raccoons eat them. It is difficult to go outside here because we have dangerous levels of pollution and smoke from the wildfires to the north, east, and south of us. Del Norte and Siskiyou Counties are under a State of Emergency. Highway 199 is still closed due the lightening started fires. I appreciate the work of our first responders and firefighters. It so important for everyone to be prepared in the event of an emergency and for the need to be able to evacuate.
Emergency shelters are an important part of disaster planning. It is wise that this feature is being included in the proposed plans for 1610 Main Street.
Our local Red Cross is always there during a disaster. They also provide classes on home preparations for surviving a disaster. We have backpacks for us and the pets ready to go. The heartbreak of the Lahaina fire should give one pause to reflect.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 11:54:06
George, You're correct about the $3,880. I was thinking of the average assessed value. But the new debt will also include that which was voted last May.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 11:41:37
One wonders why a current Floridian is so invested in what happens in Chatham, especially given the number of current problems in Florida. I too am a former Chatham resident, and IMHO 1610 Main is not a good location for CFAL. It has become increasingly congested, and given the proximity to the airport, not exactly peaceful or quiet.

Given Eastward Company's extensive real estate holdings, perhaps Bill Marsh or other developers might find a lot more suitable for a building with more support from the people of Chatham.
Judith Winters
Harwich, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 11:25:31
Debbie, Please explain how a taxpayer with a $1,000,000 assessed value home in Chatham pays "well over $5,000" in property taxes when the tax rate is 3.88.

Judy, I did read Elaine's YGI piece and I would say that it represents the desperation of opponents of the CFAL. I found the LTEs supporting the CFAL to be quite refreshing and compelling. I hope you read those too.
George Myers
USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 10:12:50
Some interesting statistics provided by Finance Director Heilala about the cost of the new CFAL for those of you who don't read the Chronicle. For taxpayers with a home assessed at $1,000,000 their taxes will increase $95.30 the first year and shrink every year thereafter. Even if you are fortunate enough to own a $2,000,000 home the new CFAL will cost you $190, a meal for 4 at Buca's if you order a cheap wine.

The state limit for Chatham borrowing is $438,000,000 of which Chatham has borrowed $176,000,000 or less than half the limit. Director Heilala said the town has more than $275,000,000 in additional borrowing capacity, more than the town could add in a year "or even over probably 10 years."

You Chatham taxpayers have the lowest 2023 tax rate on the Cape at 3.88 and an even lower 2024 rate of 3.57 approved by Mass DOR on August 30. The average tax rate for all 15 Cape towns is 6.50. You pay $3,880 for a $1,000,000 Chatham home - in Sandwich you would pay $11,500, Harwich $6,640, Orleans $6,230 and even in Dennis you would pay more at $4,670. Be happy you live in Chatham with a AAA credit rating and perhaps the best financial managers in Massachusetts.

I suspect many CFAL naysayers oppose it for no other reason than the land was gifted to the town by Bill Marsh but are unwilling to admit it publicly.
George Myers
USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 09:21:59
We may have the lowest tax rate, but it's the average tax bill that matters. Chatham is up at the top for the Cape, due to high assessed values. And a $1,000,00 property pays well over $5,000 in taxes, not $3,880.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 08:10:12
Mr. Myers- Many folks now can't afford these taxes - especially many on fixed incomes. People are being driven out of town. Just because Chatham can borrow doesn't mean we should do it. There is no need for a building that size. Ms Gibbs had an excellent "You Guest It"'column in today's Chronicle that I would urge everyone to read.
I suspect Mr Halgren was incorrect in his previous statements or he would have backed them up with facts
Debbie - in addition to several of those in the ad that aren't registered voters there is also one deceased individual that I am aware of. Once again - more exaggerations from a desperate group of people.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 07:45:45
Some interesting statistics provided by Finance Director Heilala about the cost of the new CFAL for those of you who don't read the Chronicle. For taxpayers with a home assessed at $1,000,000 their taxes will increase $95.30 the first year and shrink every year thereafter. Even if you are fortunate enough to own a $2,000,000 home the new CFAL will cost you $190, a meal for 4 at Buca's if you order a cheap wine.

The state limit for Chatham borrowing is $438,000,000 of which Chatham has borrowed $176,000,000 or less than half the limit. Director Heilala said the town has more than $275,000,000 in additional capacity, more than the town could add in a year "or even over probably 10 years."

You Chatham taxpayers have the lowest 2023 tax rate on the Cape at 3.88 and an even lower 2024 rate of 3.57 approved by Mass DOR on August 30. The average tax rate for all 15 Cape towns is 6.50. You pay $3,880 for a $1,000,000 Chatham home - in Sandwich you would pay $11,500, Harwich $6,640, Orleans $6,230 and even in Dennis you would pay more at $4,670. Be happy you live in Chatham with a AAA credit rating and perhaps the best town financial managers in Massachusetts.

I suspect many CFAL naysayers oppose it for no other reason than the land was gifted to the town by Bill Marsh but they are unwilling to admit it publicly.
George Myers
USA - Thu 08/31/2023 - 01:21:55
John - would be curious to hear your response to Elaine and David's comments. I believe they have valid points that deserve an answer.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 20:43:40
Can someone explain why there's been a recent increase in the number of duplicate posts?
Because technically, I don't see a reason for it knowing how the site works.
For example, the latest: David Mott posted same msg at 18:53 and again at 19:43.
And thus something that I would need to delete at some point but haven't yet done anything about.
Are users not able to refresh the Index page to see their entry?
I know that happens occasionally on my iPad because I can't do a forced refresh.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 20:37:13
John H...I don't see my comment as problematic but realistic. Considering the Town hasn't had even one for over a decade, why would you believe and want us to believe that we will suddenly have multiple emergency facilities in this decade? What meetings have you been privy to that the rest of us haven't? Point me to the place to find where those commitments were made by town leadership and I'll retract my statement. Also, how many towns of our size on the Cape have multiple emergency shelters? I don't have the answer to that but perhaps you do.?
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 19:43:04
Ad header: "We are Chatham voters". Lots of them are not Chatham voters. Just saying.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 19:23:53
Mr.Hallgren.At the risk of being redundant,for starters(1)there's no room for a required isolation area for people who may be contagious,(2)the plan to put pets in the second floor"adult daycare room"requires washable floors with a drain or be located on the first floor for egress.(3)During blizzards the already inadequate 56 parking spaces would be further markedly reduced by piled up snow.(4)Only one shower per 72 people-both on the second floor.(5)2+miles from the CFD in a medical emergency.(5)If we can't staff with local people which the Town Manager has declined to do to this point, and it would be staffed by the county.They will decide when or even it opens and we may be required to allow residents from other towns to use it.Your assertion that it will be one multiple shelters is inaccurate
Elaine
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 18:57:51
John H...I don't see my comment as problematic but realistic. Considering the Town hasn't had even one for over a decade, why would you believe and want us to believe that we will suddenly have multiple emergency facilities in this decade? What meetings have you been privy to that the rest of us haven't? Point me to the place to find where those commitments were made by town leadership and I'll retract my statement. Also, how many towns of our size on the Cape have multiple emergency shelters? I don't have the answer to that but perhaps you do.?
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 18:53:15
Dave Mott: As I said in my comments at the first forum, this isn't intended to be the ONLY emergency shelter, but one of multiple ones needed to support this town! So your comment is problematic because it could deny a shelter to those living in the western parts of town who might be unable to get downtown or to other locations. Proper emergency management requires multiple shelters.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 18:23:13
I like to find solutions, and not be dissuaded by folks who say "It can't be done".
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 17:53:56
I will be giving a talk to the Chatham Mens Club on Friday, October 6th. at the Community Center. The topic is "Cape Cod Coast Guardsmen in the 1937 Midwest Floods". Did you know that men from Chatham were gone for a month doing their duty, in small power boats, and got as far down rivers as Memphis, TN?

I don't know if they allow non members to attend.

But, my point here today is that building where I will be speaking, where I went to school, would be an ideal building to shelter folks who might need some temporary warming, and a bathroom. It must be heated 24/7.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 17:49:22
I couldn't help notice that on page 38 of the Chronicle this week the 1610 PR machine has published a list of over 200 named supporters. I have one simple question for them to answer - in an emergency sheltering situation, which two columns of people will be denied access because 1610 will have reached full capacity? What are the rest of us supposed to do - stand out in the cold? Please think before you vote!
Dave Mott <djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 17:33:24
Okay Emily! I will drop it by this week! Thanks for letting me use
It!
Tony Murphy
USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 14:07:33
Hey...Tony Murphy! I need my notebook on the Chatham Catalpa trees back! Thanks
Emily Cunningham
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/30/2023 - 09:14:56
So nice to read that you had help picking the beach plums. Granny and mom would pile us in granny's red rambler and traverse to Wellfleet to pick beach plums and blueberries. There once was a large blueberry patch behind the North Chatham Post Office, before it was built. Mom made Beach Plum Jelly.

I am rereading Plum Crazy by Elizabeth Post Mirel with drawings by Betty Fraser. Prunus maritima grows mostly along the Atlantic Coast. I am not sure how well they would grow on the Pacific Coast. Interestingly, the famed Santa Rosa, California botanist Luther Burbank took an interest in growing beach plums. His giant plants produced grapefruit-sized fruit that were disappointingly soggy.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Tue 08/29/2023 - 18:52:29
I was picking Beach Plums this morning at Race Point Beach in Provincetown, near the Bathhouses. (Great place, as there is a bathroom, where one could wash their hands if encountering an over-ripe plum.) It was cloudy, but there were people coming by. They asked "Are those blueberries.?" What are those, Rose Hips?
Do you make jam out of them?
Are they persimmons?
Those three bushes are the most prolific I have seen, with the largest just ripe fruits, so I drove 22 miles to take advantage of them.
A visitor even helped me pick some.
Beach Plum Tales
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 08/29/2023 - 17:28:50
I love beach plum crazy, I wash and eat them like a grapes
Josie
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 08/29/2023 - 13:24:17
Richard, I have a wonderful memory of going to The Woodlands to interview your father and Bill for an article in the Chronicle. It was a treat for me.
John Whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/28/2023 - 21:34:17
It is secret stuff here in Eastham as to where the best bushes are. Years ago I got in trouble with my Uncle Bill Ryder about divulging on this site where productive bushes were known to be in South Chatham.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 08/28/2023 - 18:53:49
Richard, I have my mom's copy of "Plum Crazy"!
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Mon 08/28/2023 - 11:35:58
Carol, lots of luck growing these bushes from seed. The bible about such plants is "Plum Crazy".
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 08/27/2023 - 21:24:37
Oo, beach plum jelly! I am determined to start these seeds my brother Will gave me from an un-disclosed North Chatham spot. One Chatham resident suggested to score the seeds before planting. They do like sandy soil. I do remember them growing on North Beach, too! :-D
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Sun 08/27/2023 - 19:09:20
OK, I am focused on Beach Plums now. Some bushes have ripened already, some are a few days away, and some are a week away. I have picked enough in our yard for a first batch, and I have enough jars, new lids, and Certo to make a second batch. Those fruits will be from undisclosed "nearby farms" if our crop is not adequate.
Years ago, there was huge bush on North Beach, just North of Old Harbor Station. Amazing to see where these plants take root and survive.
Like a bunch of us Chatham kids.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 08/27/2023 - 16:55:50
I have think the less attention any of those groups get the better Richard
Tony Murphy
USA - Sun 08/27/2023 - 08:20:12
Right on Tony!
Thomas Doane <tommydoane@comcast.net>
WEST CHATHAM, MA USA - Sun 08/27/2023 - 00:10:36
I think the less attention any of those groups get the better Richard
Tony Murphy
USA - Sat 08/26/2023 - 21:08:16
I have think the less attention any of those groups get the better Richard
Tony Murphy
USA - Sat 08/26/2023 - 21:05:27
I just read in the Provincetown Independent of the prevalence and existence of the KKK in the outer Cape back then, including in Chatham. I think there are still some cleverly hidden followers remaining. Who knew?
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 08/26/2023 - 18:46:16
Thank you John!!
Tony Murphy
USA - Sat 08/26/2023 - 08:43:25
From a COA report in the Select Board packet for the next meeting, I note mention of it being normal for program attendance to dip in the summer due to residents traveling and hosting guests. Also that 5 residents were transported to Orleans day care in July. (The Orleans COA Director has stated that clients attend one or two days per week.). It sounds to me like a new 10,965sf COA wouldn't exactly be humming with activity this time of year.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 08/26/2023 - 08:33:30
Well said John Wnelan.
Thomas Doane <tommydoane@comcast.net>
WEST CHATHAM, MA USA - Fri 08/25/2023 - 23:30:31
I have been watching the posts on the CHAT-M-Room for several months. I feel it is necessary to point out that the people supporting the project and those opposed
to the project are our neighbors and friends. There is no reason to think of someone with a different opinion as an enemy.
John Whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 08/25/2023 - 18:29:29
Thank you for the clarification on Old Harbor Rd.
AK
Chatham , MA USA - Fri 08/25/2023 - 11:23:18
Former Chat Room contributor, Carl Olson, was the grandson of the donors of the property. He was a CHS classroom of mine. He has gone, but I will say he was a staunch supporter of what his grandparents wanted for their donated property. I am not sure that they expected the property to be used as affordable housing, but they certainly did not expect it to lie fallow for so many years. And to be not properly taken care of for all these years.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 22:27:27
John H - I dare say that you are the exception to the rule. I've experienced a 60%+ increase in my property valuation over the past 10 years which translated to a 50%+ increase in my taxes. I suspect you're not comparing your apple to my apple or Steve's apple - unfortunate this forum doesn't lend itself to full disclosure.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 21:14:27
Josie, the SB connected the affordable housing element to the COA issue in an attempt to manipulate voters to change their No votes. Now, they are adding the possible emergency shelter element to do the same thing. I don't know about you but I find it insulting.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 20:46:12
To correct a previous post regarding the Old Harbor property. The Old Harbor property was legally donated by Marion Ellis in her will to the Town in 1971 with specific instructions that it be used for a school playground and that no buildings other than those on the site in 1971 be built. Town Counsel opined that MA law says essentially after 35 years the donor's wishes can be ignored. The Town voted at the last town meeting (after having rejected the same article the previous year) to allow the property to be used for affordable housing. Some further insight on the Town's taxes over the past 12 years. And some further historical insight on Chatham's tax impacts. Our FY2011 budget forecast receiving 25.2M in property taxes, while our FY2024 budget forecasts property tax revenue of 38.5M. That's an almost 53% increase in tax revenue during that period.
Steve West <steve.e.west@me.com>
Chatham/Austin, MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 19:50:40
Affordable housing? Wasn't the Old Harbor Rd property legally donated to be used as an affordable home for a Chatham family? There was never any follow through by the town . I'm not sure of the details. Will the COA building on Stony Hill become another Old Harbor Rd? What about spending money on road repairs, town roads are in dire condition.
AK
Chatham , MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 15:38:46
Why does affordable housing have to be connected to senior center deal ? We need affordable housing not with this deal....
Josie
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 15:00:51
The issue with 1610 at this point is it was already voted on and failed just 3 months ago.

A no vote should happen on principle even if you support it. Otherwise we have set a bad president. Anything voted on enough times is bound to pass at some point. Will this be how we do things going forward?

A no vote does not mean no new senior center. It will mean a better designed, lower cost opportunity for a new center.

Finally, why does the land gift have to be tied to a senior center?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 14:01:10
One more thing: Even though I am definitely a financial conservative, the fact that it seems like a number of CFAL opponents are saying: I don't use it or need it, therefore you don't either bothers me!
There's a lot of things the town pays for that I get NO benefit from but I don't object to it, like for fishing/shellfish, boating, schools, etc.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 10:54:59
Re property tax: I checked the numbers that I had easily available. In calendar year 2012, mine was approx $4,900 and in 2021, was approx $5,900 so a 20% increase over that ten years.
So not everyone had an change like Steve did.
And I wouldn't object to paying $127 a year more for a new CFAL even though I, like 55%+ of taxpayers, don't get to vote on it. It's not only voter's who will be paying for it which is the impression the opponents are giving.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 10:31:08
I'd also like to know what the current average assessed property value is. And how much more will a property owner with that value have to pay in taxes for the first year of debt payoff? I think the last time I saw this figure it was $127.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 08:41:14
Speaking of taxes, for the upcoming COA meeting the best tax number to have at the ready is how much the average Chatham property tax bill has increased over the last 10-12 years. Our annual property tax bill has increased from $2,500 in 2011 to $4,260 in 2023 with no improvements done on our home during that period. That's an almost 70% increase, or about 6%/year in that timeframe. The town, and supporters of any big spending projects, like to talk about tax rates or our burden vs. other MA towns, those comparisons are far less important to our pocket books than actual tax dollar increases we have incurred in that timeframe.
Steve West <steve.e.west@me.com>
Chatham/Austin, MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 07:45:58
ATTENTION all Chatham voters if you don't want your taxes to increase at least the amount of a high end meal out in town Vote NO on 1610 . It's time this ridiculous spending this town is so fond of ends. Vote No on all high end spending or it will never end
EM <Emallowes@comcast.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/24/2023 - 07:18:14
I find it arrogant and presumptuous these folks labeled the sign on the land as "the future home of the COA. They are succeeding in really
Infuriating a lot of people. I like Bill's idea of a Special Town Meeting if they are successful in their quest. Getting that small amount of signatures is easy.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/23/2023 - 19:29:19
So pleased that so many Chatham voters showed up to confront the Select board at their public forum/meeting. about the proposed COA new building. Feet to the fire is a good challenge.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 08/23/2023 - 18:56:09
Check out the huge new sign that was just put up at 1610 within the past hour. Wonder if a permit is needed for that sized sign?
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/23/2023 - 12:03:40
Select board has set new precedent with calling for a special town meeting. Legal or not it is poor form and a violation of good faith. They would not even answer if they would accept this vote as final.

They should be aware a citizen could seek a special town meeting with 200 signatures.

This can include amending budgetary appropriations, authorizing the disposition of interests in land. In other words reversing 1610 project.

They have set a precedent that every time a vote does not go a way someone wants just go for a special town meeting.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/23/2023 - 10:22:59
Very disappointed that the question the last speaker asked about whether the board will continue to jam this project down our throats was met with, we'll take it under advisement. He deserved an answer right then and there however no board member had the courage to answer his very simple question. I find that lack of an answer extremely disrespectful and cowardly. This is one reason politicians have little respect.
steve jesus <sjjesus21@gmail.com>
chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/23/2023 - 07:52:35
Very interesting meeting tonight. Glad to hear all the opposition. Select Board member Davis was much more interested in texting on her phone than paying attention. I found that totally disrespectful and rude.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Tue 08/22/2023 - 19:29:03
Barry, it is an open meeting and the public is invited to attend.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 08/22/2023 - 01:54:47
If you are planning to watch tomorrow evening's Town Hall meeting, this is a reminder that our Local Access channel has changed to Xfinity Channel 8 or 1070.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/21/2023 - 19:36:02
John H,
It is up to the town to justify and prove the efficacy of their estimate not the taxpayer. It is not slander or libel to question anyone especially elected officials who have a fiduciary responsibility to spend the taxpayers money responsibly.
steve jesus <sjjesus21@gmail.com>
chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/21/2023 - 19:34:23
Judy;Is this a closed meeting? or can we all go? if so let's !!!
Barry Fulcher <barsyl4041@comcast.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/21/2023 - 12:31:27
John - : Our tax dollars are being used to provide the estimated costs
to be talked about tomorrow night. They should be reliable, but they are
questionable and we have every right to say that. There are no operational
costs. No list of what is included. Is the parking lot construction
included? Adding an emergency shelter at this location is unreasonable.
Parking is insufficient for the number of people who might need to use it .
Who is going to staff it - how much will that add to cots- along with benefits? They are making it worse, not better. Taxpayers deserve to know what is not being put in front of us . There are several omissions in the estimate that hopefully will be cleared up tomorrow night.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/21/2023 - 11:03:51
If someone finds the cost estimates unbelievable or untrue, then I would suggest they supply their own experts with similar technical qualifications to justify those opinions or alternatively refrain from making statements like that which could be considered libelous or slander in some cases.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sun 08/20/2023 - 21:48:09
In the Chronicle, I see a glowing report of the finances of Chatham. It does not cover the tax burden that is imposed of blue collar workers in the Town. If, in fact, there are any left.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 08/20/2023 - 19:27:09
In the Chronicle, I see a glow
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 08/20/2023 - 19:24:30
Thank you Bill. They seem to come out of the woodwork from across the country and here. Let's try to stay on topic folks.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 08/20/2023 - 17:25:04
I see supporters of 1610 are now bringing up Trump and Q-anon trying to pollute this forum. Trump and Q-anon have nothing to do with Chatham, this forum or 1610.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 08/20/2023 - 10:09:31
I've been here over 30 years just never been to this chat room before.
Mary D
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 08/19/2023 - 21:10:46
Should be NHC.noaa.gov to check on tropical storm formations.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 08/19/2023 - 19:08:06
Be aware of the potential for tropical storm/ potential hurricanes forming in the South Atlantic as we speak. Check out NHC.gov
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 08/19/2023 - 19:06:38
I think the supporters of this proposed new COA building want to get the same support that they see the Chatham Fishermen receiving, in the way of up to date construction , like spending for off loading facilities at Aunt Lydia's Cove and Stage Harbor. I know us old people don't have a revenue stream, except to the medical system.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 08/19/2023 - 17:43:30
from another newbie to the chat site.
Do the cost estimates posted for BOS meeting on Tuesday
compare apples to apples? size/amenities?
I didn't see an elevator on the floor plan. will one be available?
Bill B
chatham, MA USA - Sat 08/19/2023 - 12:49:02
Mary - because not one project Chatham has ever done had come within budget. Maybe if you live here long enough you'll realize this.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 08/19/2023 - 11:59:43
I'm new to this site. I don't understand why some posters assume the professionals at Tuesday's forum are going to lie? Is this really a QAnon ? Just asking.
Mary D
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 08/19/2023 - 08:22:17
The COA cost estimates are now posted on the agenda for the BOS meeting for next Tuesday. If anyone believes them, we have plenty of bridges to sell you. How this particular architect and engineer keep getting the Town's business is pretty questionable. The Community Center, once again, is a no-brainer. Please don't be suckered into believing these cost estimates. I find this highly unbelievable as I am sure others will as well.
JudyP <judylpat@comcast.net>
West Chatham, MA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 20:48:34
Richard - that's the fault of the idiots that let them go - along with Chatham banning bottled water. Most folks are responsible but because many aren't - everyone pays. I have it on good word that Danny Meservey was bringing an article back to Town Meeting
prior to his death, a warrant to allow bottled water back in town. Someone else will have to do iit now.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 19:15:25
Balloons are known to be detrimental to sea turtles.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 19:06:39
We are veering off topic here. Not talking about Trump - although it's interesting to see how many people have TDS. Balloons are no longer sold at band concerts and you can't buy bottled water here in town anymore to take to beach. Sorry state of affairs here in Chatham these days.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 18:51:24
I just heard a new approbation for DJT, "a firehose of falsehoods".
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 17:50:58
wow....Trump did a number on you guys.....

Let it go. Go soak your toes in the water, walk on the beach, get a balloon at the band concert, sniff the salt air. Enjoy life. Get some help. Please.
Jim in SA
USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 17:23:39
Jared I agree with your opinion of the Chronicle and their editorials. Unfortunately, because they are so leftist and biased, I tend to vote contrary to their endorsements.
AK
Chatham , MA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 13:33:10
I'm not a Trumpie and I support a new reasonably sized Senior Center. Generalizations can be unfair.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 09:43:32
Thanks for pointing out the Chon's editorial. I would have missed it otherwise. There seem to be Trump supporters in various places who are now reacting locally by seeking to halt constructive projects. In our local town, it's about the local billionaire trying to stop housing on surplus parking lots. In your town, some seem heck-bent on stopping a Senior Center. Is there some kind of frustration being acted out from coast-to-coast? The similarities are eerie.
Greg <conners.greg@gmail.com>
LOLETA, CA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 09:14:59
The Chronicle is within their rights to opine about anything as long as it is on the OPINION page. I do not however feel that letters to the editor that insult or demean some others opinion should be printed. This in my mind is journalistic malfeasance and only serves to inflame the uncivilized rhetoric in our world that many, especially on the left side of the spectrum, rail about.
I hope the Chronicle keeps it clean in the future.
steve jesus <sjjesus21@gmail.com>
chatham, MA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 08:30:52
Jared
I agree, so true.

Josie
Josie
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 08/18/2023 - 05:28:06
The Chronicle's editorials are predictable weekly. They have a knack for taking any topic they are at odds with and entwining it with Trump. A couple of years ago, in their delusional state, the editorial staff attempted to make a correlation between the local housing crisis and Donald Trump. Meanwhile, they are completely blind to typical leftist bullying tactics that occur daily. Reading the liberal garbage that is the Chronicle, has become a weekly chore. I skim it as much as possible to see what is happening locally.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/17/2023 - 21:28:20
Dick -,it was awful. I never thought a Chatham paper would lean so left. Just awful. This town was never like this in the 60's and 70's.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/17/2023 - 18:13:04
Steve, And the Chronicle editorial this week leaves a lot to be desired.
Dick Fulcher <dick.marie@comcast.net>
Chatham MA 02633, MA USA - Thu 08/17/2023 - 16:07:24
Well said Dave, the Chronicle has printed insulting opinion letters about people opposed to 1610 multiple times. The left screams about the lack of civility in our culture but feeds the disease by printing uncivilized letters in their paper.
The Chronicle should be ashamed of themselves but they are not because they speak out of both sides of their mouths when it suits the aims.
steve jesus <sjjesus21@gmail.com>
chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/17/2023 - 07:00:47
The first house my parents rented was the Wholly House on Cedar Street. I remember Mr. Meservey and Mr. Turner working in the office in the front of the house. I remember their smiles when we passed by them to go out the front door. I have a photo of me taking my first steps in front of the house with my Howe grandparents looking on. Mr. Meservey was my parents accountant. He was most pleasant to talk to on the phone after mom passed. He was very professional. Condolences to his family and friends.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Wed 08/16/2023 - 21:17:30
Sad to read of the passing of Roy Briggs Meservey, the last of the three brothers who had such a positive influence on Chatham. I climbed Mount Washington with Roy and other members of Post 71 Explorer Scouts back around 1956. Damned near died in the thick fog at the top, but Roy assured me everything would be OK. RIP, Roy.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 08/16/2023 - 19:20:02
Not surprisingly, a LTE in today's Chronicle has reverted to name calling, the lowest form of intellect. Those of us who oppose the 1610 COA are now called " Chathamites Against Virtually Everything ". To the writer's credit, they start off listing critical bug picture issues which we will need to be addressed sooner than later and then falling back into incoherent reasoning - vague references to flawed & incomplete studies without presenting facts & figures. I can't decide if it's simply a lack of effort or a lack of detail to support their position. C.S Lewis must have known some 1610 supporters.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/16/2023 - 18:43:05
Disingenuous is a very polite word . There is no reason in the world the Community Center can't continue to host programs for the COA. A small, tasteful addition could be added on so it would be open to everyone to utilize. This would be the perfect solution and would come nowhere close to $11M. The time has come for building an $11+ million dollar building for a select group of folks to go. Chatham can follow in Harwich's footsteps. I love the way folks move into our town and proceed to tell everyone what is best for the town and how we should be spending our money.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/16/2023 - 16:09:44
Then there's Dennis, population 15,000, with NO community center and a 20,000sf CFAL.
And Wellfleet, population 3,600, with NO community center and a 6,300sf Senior Center.
Harwich, population 13,000, does have a 35,400sf community center. It includes about 5,000sf of dedicated space for the Senior Center.

The Chronicle letter writer comparing Chatham to the four other towns is very disingenuous.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/16/2023 - 11:39:15
40,000. That's the magic number! Chatham would be just shy of that for square footage of space for community/COA activities if the proposed CFAL passes (28,587 + 10,965sf). Anyone who compares us with Orleans, our demographic twin with no community center, isn't telling the whole story. Orleans manages with its 8,500sf Senior Center. Why does Chatham need 4.5 times as much space?
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/16/2023 - 11:06:56
Two thought provoking letters to editor today in the Chronicle against spending millions on the proposed COA. I hope folks pay attention and vote no.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/16/2023 - 08:05:27
Mrs. Ellis, our English teacher in Chatham, would be proud of all posters on this site. As would our teachers who brought us along. I think I learned spelling from a book my parents gave me. It was an illustrated dictionary.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 08/15/2023 - 19:27:37
Mrs. Ellis, our 6th gra
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 08/15/2023 - 19:21:22
If you're concerned about 1610 Main construction costs and future town debt, please read the Chronicle article on page 5 about the options for Orleans Elementary. Keep in mind that this school was built in 1956, the same year as Chatham Elementary, which is currently programmed for a $1 million (and counting) roof replacement. Serious school debt probably lies ahead, in addition to that of an overbuilt CFAL. I'm concerned.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 08/15/2023 - 08:11:38
I agree with what Seth Taylor has said about Town Meeting in the past. In rebutting Mr. Myers' attempt to use Seth's words against him in his lawsuit, there is a point where the pursuit of a certain agenda becomes asinine (i.e. 1610). The 2/3 vote is a godsend and by virtue of its existence, any tabulation less than, is by definition, a defeat. It matters not that the "simple majority" is in favor; the "simple majority" does not approve capital expenditures.

Someone opined that Seth Taylor's lawsuit against the Town was a waste of time and money. What is a taxpayer funded Special Town Meeting of a numerously defeated topic, if not a waste of both taxpayer money and time? What is an 11 million dollar senior center for a select group, if not an obscene waste of taxpayer funds? What kind of idiotic message does our "leadership" send when they say our current senior cannot be renovated for its current use, but CAN be turned into housing?
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 17:53:58
Does everybody know that in 2019, among all Massachusettes municipalities Chatham had the 3rd highest debt service as a percentage of operating budgets? Chatham spent 43% of its total budget on debt service. In looking at a "per capita" basis, Chatham again had the 3rd highest per capita expenditure on debt service.
Keep that in mind while you're considering how to vote in September. These are categories where being near the top of the list is NOT a positive thing.
Dave Mott <djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 17:47:04
John W - good letter. I hope we get a thorough explanation of many things.
Dave Mott <djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 17:28:43
I anticipate that the vote on 1610 will once again be close. The determination could depend on the cost estimate for construction. As we know, the present estimate of cost was done some time ago. Construction costs have risen a great deal, due to demand and COVID-19 and other factors. The PPI [Producer Price Index] for materials and inputs for non-residential construction rose sharply in 2021 [18.3%] and 2022 [12.6%] and has been steady for 2023. It will be most interesting to hear the estimates in the upcoming forums. I hope we get a thorough explanation of the new estimate and the methodology of how it was arrived at.
John Whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 16:33:39
I guess some people just can't accept the COA has lost several times . Once again - like a spoiled child that has been told no. They will just keep trying. Town meeting has the 2/3 vote for a reason - it's mandated. Amy - great post.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 11:55:37
Some Seth Taylor quotes from the past:

"It is not the intent of democracy for us to lose the value of personal vote and personal control. . . In our town, elections, our town meeting is open and available to every single individual that wishes to come and participate - involve themselves in the democratic process. There is nothing more democratic than that."

Town meeting is "the purest form of democracy."

"A democratic government is the people. There is no more democratic function than the people of the town of Chatham in the only forum that they have which is town meeting open to all voters."
George Myers
USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 11:36:36
I don't think Seth Taylor's suit has anything to do with the select board's push to get the vote for a senior center but that is neither here nor there. There have often been forums put on regarding candidates or significant issues, but those have been hosted by unbiased groups like the League of Women voters, not the select board which is on record being for this proposal. I think what they are doing is trying to circumvent the town meeting process. It's just my opinion.
As for the 2/3 vote....the whole point of the 2/3 vote IS to protect the minority. As someone said at the last town meeting, all articles for borrowing require the 2/3 vote, as it SHOULD be more difficult to pass than by a simple majority. Borrowing for a project indicates it's a substantial project for the community at large and it needs to have buy in by more than just a simple majority.
Amy
USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 11:34:26
And some people refuse to understand the concept that democracy is based on the concept of the vote of the majority, NOT the minority. Plus, an elected official isn't required to represent the minority either, since it was the majority that elected them. Also, a super majority isn't required for most all elections, including ones that have more impact than this one.

There's been forums before town meetings for other issues where voters can get info and discuss the topic without any issues so why should this be treated any different?
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 09:45:43
Amy - they are desperate and will do whatever it takes. The way one particular Board member has been acting seems rather questionable to me considering he took an oath to represent everyone - not just a select group of folks. I'm also waiting for the new poster to answer Bill's question- but I don't see that happening. These meetings most likely weren't even thought of before Mr. Taylor's complaint. Mr Taylor's motion for a hearing is still scheduled for August 31. Regardless of what happens with that - it has certainly been a wakeup call for all of us. For them to continue to push after multiple "NO" notes is not democracy. Maybe after the Special Town Meeting we can work on a recall for those that didn't respect town meeting vote.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 07:18:35
Seems to me the select board, by holding its two "forums" in the next few weeks, is really trying to circumvent the town meeting process, which is exactly where the discussion and presentations should take place. Do they think town meeting will just be a vote with no discussion? That's not the way it works.
Amy
USA - Mon 08/14/2023 - 04:43:26
To me, this was a CYA operation by the present Chatham Select Board, previously known as the Board of Selectmen. Captain Dave Ryder served as a Selectman for 15 years, running unopposed for his last few terms. I doubt if he would have had a strong opinion on either side. He would have been open for facts and valid estimates before casting his vote, or speaking for or against at Town Meeting.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 08/13/2023 - 17:35:41
That is not the way I thought it transpired.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 08/13/2023 - 17:07:41
Can you point to some evidence of that? Public notice, news report, etc.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 08/13/2023 - 16:56:31
FACT: The 2 Town Halls scheduled for August 22 and September 12 were put into motion long before Mr. Taylor's suit. He had nothing to do with it.
Petunia C.
Pauline Carr <petunialuv@icloud.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 08/13/2023 - 15:33:45
I do believe the reason we now have 2 public meetings on 1610 is because of the lawsuit. So some good did become of it.

That motion for a restraining order was always a long shot. No one expected it to be granted. The case is still open.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 08/12/2023 - 18:30:22
Be aware that because of how this site works, it's not easy to do certain tasks, like removing posts that are not within the rules and parameters that I have defined, and thus is something that I rarely do, and if I do, I need to normally do it during the night when nobody would be using the site. So an objectionable post might remain here for longer than I would prefer as is happening now.

There's a post here by a regular and frequent user which definitely violated the personal attack rule, and even though the target wasn't named, it's a voter and a participant in a cause they believe in.
I am not naming the individual who made the post but there was a description of the target that I doubt would be allowed at Town Meeting, which is the basic concept that this site operates on.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sat 08/12/2023 - 18:23:31
Yesterday, without a hearing, Judge Callan denied Seth Taylor's TRO motion stating, "This is not a particularly close call. It is not even clear that Mr Taylor has pled a cause of action, let alone demonstrated a likelihood of success. A balancing of the harms overwhelmingly tilts in favor of Chatham; and this court has no place: and maybe no jurisdiction to enjoin a town meeting under these circumstances."
George Myers
USA - Sat 08/12/2023 - 11:06:29
The Barkentine became the Old Harbor Inn, which looks like a nice place to stay and is close to downtown Chatham. There was an Old Harbor Inn on Scatteree Road in North Chatham until it closed and was sold to a family and became a private residence. We could hear the music from my Granny's house. This was in the early 1960's. Mr. Tileston played the piano there for the guests.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Sat 08/12/2023 - 09:33:13
The full name of the church was the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, not to be confused with the Utah Mormons.
Jill James <Theron1962@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 08/11/2023 - 20:07:27
If my memory serves me correctly, Mrs. Reynolds (grandmother of David and Anne Thomson) was a member of the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints in Dennis Port. My Mom was also a member of that church and we used to go visit "Sister" Reynolds on occasion. I recall looking forward to those visits.
Jill James <Theron1962@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 08/11/2023 - 20:04:42
Carol, The Barkentine was 3rd on right ie; Congo Church, Dr.Keene( now Old Harbor Inn), The Barkentine.
Nancy Ryder Petrus <nansea123@comcast.net>
NORTH CHATHAM, MA USA - Fri 08/11/2023 - 18:56:38
Ms. Reynolds was the only person we knew at Halloween who could dispense Hoodsie cups as treats, as she had a freezer. Our refrigerator at home could maybe hold a pint of ice cream, but not for long. An ice cube tray was a challenge.
Life was simpler then.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 08/10/2023 - 20:38:19
Nancy, where on Old Harbor Road was The Barkentine? Makes me feel hungry reading about the food!
Emily, I remember my Granny took us to The Queen Anne Inn for tea. Your informs looked sharp! It was the first time I had eaten cucumber and cream cheese sandwiches and the crusts were cut-off. So dainty.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Thu 08/10/2023 - 13:31:45
My first job after receiving the required workers permit at age 14 was at the Barkentine on Old Harbor, owned by Edith Reynolds. It was a guest house which served breakfast and dinner. Grey uniforms with apron for breakfast and blue uniforms with apron for dinner. After breakfast we had to clean the rooms of the guests. Edith was a fabulous cook and her Parker House rolls were made daily. I could take the leftover rolls home to my hungry brothers! Her desserts were just divine. I particularly remember her Black Bottom pie. Oh my. She had a freezer in a room off the kitchen which held the ice cream often served with a butterscotch or chocolate sauce. There was never a cross word from Edith and she often sang while cooking. Horace was her husband and he was a well known builder in town. These fond memories sustain me in my old age.
Nancy Ryder Petrus <nansea123@comcast.net>
NORTH CHATHAM, MA USA - Thu 08/10/2023 - 12:16:55
Yes Richard, they provided us with nylon seersucker dresses, yellow, green and blue! We bought our own white "nurses" shoes!
Emily <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 08/10/2023 - 04:52:42
I read the post, it was from someone from Chatham. Thank you, John.
My first "real" job after newspaper deliveries in North Chatham, baby sitting and house and cottage cleaning was a cashier in the garden shop at Mid Cape Center in South Dennis. One of my earliest memories was of the Nickerson Lumber Company in Chatham, as my dad was employed there. When the Chatham store closed, dad worked in at the Orleans store. Dad worked for Nickerson Lumber Company and Mid Cape Center for 33 years.
Condolences to the friends and family of Mr. Nickerson.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Wed 08/09/2023 - 19:46:01
Looking back, I wonder what or who those posts were from.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 08/09/2023 - 17:51:45
Just to clarify: Both posts were by regular users of this site, and both were either from Chatham or Harwich. And there was NO argument, just a couple of posts irrelevant to Chatham.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 08/09/2023 - 11:15:05
Interesting to me that the town is finally asking g the FinComm to develop a cost estimate for the running of the proposed COA building. I made this point long ago. We should not forget that we are voting on a conceptual design and not a final bid ready project. We also should not forget that the low bid will most certainly come in higher than the estimate used to approve the project. The extra money will have to come from taxpayers pockets and will be an unknown (at this time ) amount. One of the pegs the proponents hang their hats on is that the land is being donated. Was the town planning on buying land for the building in the first place? No. So what's the big deal about getting this parcel for free? Just a stupid talking point intended to impress the proponents.
steve jesus <sjjesus21@gmail.com>
chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/09/2023 - 10:05:39
Thank you John. When folks from out of town try to argue with someone from town just to stir the pot - and they aren't a regular poster - good move to delete it.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/09/2023 - 10:02:14
FYI: There's times when something is posted that doesn't fit the criteria for this forum and I don't have opportunity to address it before another user(s) will respond with similar post(s) that also are outside the topic limits that I have published. And yes, on occasion, I have been a bit more tolerant because of the subject matter or timing but I intend to remove a couple of posts made recently that have NO connection to Chatham or Cape Cod and which are likely to cause discord so be aware, ok?
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Tue 08/08/2023 - 22:54:02
Atlantic Oaks Campground in Eastham can do that.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 08/08/2023 - 17:05:58
Bill P - I believe Snow's in Orleans still fill tanks.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 08/08/2023 - 15:56:23
Bill - I was told there's a place in Commerce Park by the puddle . Not sure if it's Whiteley's or next to it. Good luck!
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Tue 08/08/2023 - 10:22:18
Does any Chatham business have a propane tank refill? Not exchange. I was thinking of getting a 30 or 40lb tank vs the common 20lb exchange.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 08/08/2023 - 10:03:41
Yes Richard, they provided us with nylon seersucker dresses, yellow, green and blue! We bought our own white "nurses" shoes!
Emily <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 08/08/2023 - 05:15:01
Emily, did you have a waitress uniform provided or did you have to pay for it yourself? Sounds like servitude to me.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 08/07/2023 - 17:55:42
I made more $$ mowing lawns in the neighborhood, and emptying Sammy Morgan's cat box near the Lights.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 08/07/2023 - 17:47:32
Are you Feeling Nostalgic? If you're feeling nostalgic and missing the 1990's, just pay a visit to the Chatham Community Center. If you do, you will be transported back 3 decades when you see its condition and how it's being managed. It is archaic in its level of technology, space inefficiently used and furniture & fixtures desperately in need of replacement. It baffles me that a facility which is supposed to serve the needs of our entire community is being ignored by town leadership in favor of promoting the much criticized 1610 CFAL. While other towns are finding solutions to satisfy both community and senior needs, Chatham leadership is addicted to the 1610 initiative -- a project which, because of its insufficiently sized lot, can never be expanded. I recently watched the August 4th SRAC meeting and heard their frustration with our select board. In the past few years, they voiced their support for the multiple alternatives- Renovation & Addition to the existing COA building or an Addition to the existing Community Center. The collective voice of the individuals who account for over 60% of the taxes paid to the Town has been marginalized by Town Management with the sole shameless agenda of building at 1610. It appears serving the entire community means rolling up their sleeves and actively trying to unduly influence, cajole and intimidate the citizenry to convince us that only THEY know what's best and will say or do whatever it takes to win.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/07/2023 - 16:40:11
About the same era I was a waitress at the Queen Anne Inn. American plan which meant you had the same guests/ family for their entire stay 3 meals a day! We made picnics and we only had one dinner meal off every nine days. We anticipated their departure on the front porch to ring bells as they left and slipped a tip in your apron pocket. How about a family of 5 for two weeks? A ten dollar tip? Do the math!
Emily <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 08/07/2023 - 15:59:15
I was also a Caddie at CBI. I enjoyed it a lot. For a young kid it felt like a lot of money to me. More than my paper route. Usually between 5 or 6 dollars. One day I made $18. That was a haul.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 08/06/2023 - 06:06:54
Richard, I enjoyed caddying at CBI. It's true the bags were heavy and that we were underpaid, but it was my first job and I like having a dollar or two in my pocket. Ben Bassett was always tough, but fair.
John Whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 08/05/2023 - 20:13:10
Summer for us local kids was not a picnic. Caddying at the CBI, lugging heavy leather bags with more than the required clubs, up steep hills, on a hot and humid August morning, was the absolute worst job I ever had. I can still feel the pain on my shoulders.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 08/05/2023 - 19:42:38
Mr Schell has commandeered several of my friends at various locations throughout town trying to convince them to vote for the COA. He is totally biased and should keep his mouth shut and act like a selectman.
He was elected to represent the people and he's done everything but. There was an individual at the dump the other day collecting signatures again for the COA. What is with these people? Enough is enough! What good are signatures going to do? Will they put them in the Chronicle again with all the duplicates and folks that aren't even voters? Wake up folks! These people will stop at nothing! They are ridiculous in their quest for this overpriced COA.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 08/05/2023 - 19:34:34
Summer is racing by. For some of us, who wait all year for the summer, that is sad news. We are not that far from the Special Town Meeting on the COA. It will be very interesting to learn the updated estimate for construction of the building. The Select Board has promised an accurate updated figure.
John Whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 08/05/2023 - 12:05:39
Jan Nickerson was a fine man, as was his father and grandfather. I met Jan in second grade when Miss Hammond wrote "the new boy's name" on the blackboard. That evening at the supper table I announced that the new boy in our class was named JOSHMA. We saw each other seldom through the years but there was definitely a connection when we did. Rest in peace, Jan.
Nancy Ryder Petrus <nansea123@comcast.net>
NORTH CHATHAM, MA USA - Thu 08/03/2023 - 18:18:54
Yes, they have the original t-bone water pump that my wife's family used at their newly built camp in 1946 - before electricity was available. Later, they got a gasoline driven pump. I also gave the EHS tool folks Dave Ryder's miter box.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 08/02/2023 - 15:56:44
The Eastham Hysterical Society also has a terrific tool museum on the same site
steve jesus <sjjesus21@gmail.com>
chatham, MA USA - Wed 08/02/2023 - 08:10:45
The Eastham Historical Society has the Dill Camp on display next to the Eastham Post office. Similar to the Nickerson camp, and the no longer Ryder/Lumpkin camp on North Beach.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 08/01/2023 - 19:02:25
Jan will be missed at the Atwood Museum! As a docent and guide I tell the story of his parent's Camp on North Brach. Joshua Atkins Nickerson and his wife Barbie weathered hurricane Edna in 1954 at their camp which now resides on the lawn of the Atwood House thanks to Jan's generous gift of the camp which saved it from washing away.
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 08/01/2023 - 10:42:24
Beach cleaning seems to be a given responsibility of the DPW, like street sweeping, clearing storm drains before heavy rains, and of course plowing snow. Or maybe in Chatham, beach cleaning is a Parks and Rec responsibility . Whoever is responsible , get it done. If you can't, why not?
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 07/31/2023 - 18:30:52
Have to give credit to the individual(s) who cleaned Harding's today. It was the best it's looked this summer. Too bad it took a letter to the Chronicle this week from a visitor along with multiple letters to our Town Manager to get it done. Hopefully they can keep it up.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/30/2023 - 20:44:10
Not a Baseball fan, but it was interesting to hear that the Red Sox were recently playing the Atlanta Braves. Back in the day, they were called the Boston Braves.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 07/29/2023 - 17:45:12
Okay, the Sox are in town (SF, the nearest real city). Who are these guys, anyway? Next game is today. Go Giants!
Greg <conners.greg@gmail.com>
LOLETA, CA USA - Sat 07/29/2023 - 09:28:26
Jan will be missed at the Atwood Museum! As a docent and guide I tell the story of his parent's Camp on North Brach. Joshua Atkins Nickerson and his wife Barbie weathered hurricane Edna in 1954 at their camp which now resides on the lawn of the Atwood House thanks to Jan's generous gift of the camp which saved it from washing away.
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/29/2023 - 04:17:33
Very sad to hear about Jan Nickerson. The last part of his life was tough.
John Whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 07/28/2023 - 18:18:40
I see Jan Nickerson has passed. He ran the Nickerson Lumber Co and then Mid Cape Home Centers for many years. He and sister Nancy were of very similar ages, and Dave Ryder bought our house on Old Harbor Road from a Nickerson relative. Sad day for her I am sure.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 07/28/2023 - 17:17:36
OK. Swordfish Bacon is a new term to me. But I get it.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 07/26/2023 - 17:35:20
Nape is the back of the neck. The belly of swordfish is also called Swordfish Bacon and is high in omega-3 fatty acids an low in saturated fats. Bon appetite.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Tue 07/25/2023 - 22:58:51
In their quest to garner votes for the COA at 1610, Selectman Schell and others are so desperate they are inviting people into their homes. What's next? Free dinners at Chatham Cut or a weekend at CBI - all for the price of one vote. Or maybe they will offer a seat at one of the $5000 tables at Taste of Chatham. These folks will stop at nothing. Please be sure to speak to your friends to get out and vote NO at the Special Town Meeting September 18.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Mon 07/24/2023 - 19:44:29
Dave Ryder always called the swordfish nape the thin belly wall part. Now I am told it is the part of a fish behind the head.
What gives? I bought some sword today in Truro that had a thin section that I called the nape. It has more fat in it than the rest of the steak. He liked it to cook over a charcoal fire on North Beach, from Willard Nickerson's Market. I always thought it was a real treat.
Help me out here.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 07/24/2023 - 18:47:07
I have read that Route 28 between Orleans and Chatham is scheduled to be repaved soon. Anyone got any new info? Define soon. And about RTE 137? Torn up for a long time, waiting for things to settle? It is called proper vibratory compacting when the trench is backfilled..
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 07/23/2023 - 17:34:18
Peter send the town a bill for mowing . The way this town likes to spend money they shouldn't mind paying someone that actually does some work .
EM <emallowes@comcast.net>
USA - Fri 07/21/2023 - 18:30:18
After numerous complaints by Chatham residents the beach was being cleaned this morning . I was told it will also be cleaned Saturday and Sunday. Peter - I sympathize with you. I'm so sick of trying to get people to do their damn jobs. Apparently our taxes are not being spent properly or this stuff would be done. . When we have a Town Manager making over $200K per year and her reports are not doing their jobs- it's time for a change. The beaches are disgusting, the roads are a nightmare (137 in particular), cemeteries again are a mess - there are problems. The three BOS members you reference are absolutely useless. Time for them to go instead of them promoting their own agendas. Shame on every one of you that voted for these three amigos.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Fri 07/21/2023 - 17:57:25
Had to cut the grass at our lot in Peoples Cemetery one more time. It is appalling that we can't properly maintain our cemeteries. I had a good talk with cemetery commissioner Dave Whitcomb but was lied to by our new DPW director. It seems that the problem is once again with our inept Town Manager that needs to be replaced. However that won't happen any time soon because we have three Selectmen that kiss her ~~~.
Peter W Taylor <denise.taylor1@comcast.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 07/21/2023 - 11:43:08
The County website does show Ridgevale and Cockle Cove Beaches being closed to swimming, due to bacteria.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Fri 07/21/2023 - 09:16:55
I was told today by Dan Tobin's replacement that Ridgevale Beach and Cockle Cove are closed due to plovers ; yet the paper reports they are closed due to E-coli bacteria. I have repeatedly asked why Harding's Beach is so filthy. Nothing but lip service. People were cleaning their areas today of seaweed because whoever is cleaning the beach is doing a horrible job. Tobin's replacement told me the beach is cleaned Tuesday, Friday, and Saturday. What a ridiculous schedule . I can't believe the town can't even maintain beaches for three months of the year for tourists and our taxes pay for this mess. . Yet - look at the patterns- they let 127 Old Harbor deteriorate, and they want us to spend 11 million for a COA when they can't maintain anything? Something is rotten here - I hope they get their act together before Labor Day and everyone can enjoy Harding's.
JudyP
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/20/2023 - 20:37:44
I think I counted only 18 power poles with lights in Eastham. Somehow we manage.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 07/19/2023 - 17:27:17
The F-word? "Freaking", like in "Also, the highway exits on the Cape are too freaking dark at night." I am used to rural highways, but out here the exits seem well-lit in comparison.
Greg <conners.greg@gmail.com>
LOLETA, CA USA - Wed 07/19/2023 - 11:15:27
I was referring to the "F" word, not the bikes or regulations. It does not mean fool.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 07/18/2023 - 21:41:24
Out of curiosity, I looked up the new 2023 bicycle laws in Massachusetts and California. In California, there is a 3' berth when passing bicyclists. In Massachusetts, there is a 4' berth when passing bicyclists. Bicyclists should follow the rules of the road.

I can understand the frustration driving with distracted people. It is summertime, and there are lots of people traveling. Be careful out there.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Tue 07/18/2023 - 20:03:03
Bill P: Are you ready to give skateboarders and roller skaters a 4 foot distance while you go on Route 28 between Orleans and Chatham? Those of us who pay State taxes by registering our vehicles contribute to the highway maintenance. These other people, like bicyclists, are not contributing anything.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 07/18/2023 - 19:08:09
Bill P: Are you ready to give a
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 07/18/2023 - 19:03:24
Richard your first 3 letters are probably inappropriate for this forum. At least I think so.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 07/18/2023 - 18:21:24
WTF is an acronym for "Who's The Fool" who came up with this new rule.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 07/18/2023 - 17:05:41
Well, blow me down! Here I am, face-to-screen with this chat site for Chatham locals, almost as if I didn't get lost six times on the way here. Haven't stepped foot in our dear town for 35 years, since the 1988 "incident"... but let's not dredge up ancient history.

Pulled up my old-man socks and returned for the 4th of July parade, hoping folks had short memories or at least forgiving ones. I was half expecting to see wanted posters with my face on them!

But the parade, oh it was like stepping into a time machine! I was clapping, cheering, my arthritic back momentarily forgotten. Even my dentures got into the spirit of things, threatening to launch themselves right into the midst of the spectacle.

And the dancing? Let's just say if Astaire was watching, he would've had a good chuckle, bless his soul. In the whirlwind of it all, I felt decades younger. You'd think a little patriotic fanfare would be just the thing to heal old wounds and creaky backs!

Now I find myself wondering, why aren't there more parades? My chiropractor could use a holiday, and I could use a bit more of that youthful zest.

So here I am, back in the swing of Chatham, telling tales, battling my back, and hoping the past stays right where it belongs -- in the past. After all, if you can't forget a little 1988 ruckus, what's a man to do, eh?
Joey Chubbs <Joeyc@aol.com>
Greenwich , CT USA - Tue 07/18/2023 - 10:40:19
AK - I am sorry to hear about your grandchildren. Did they have bug spray on while at Hardings? I understand the frustration of bugs on the beach, but at the end of the day this is their habitat. On one hand, they bite and can cause a nasty rash, but on the other, they have giants (from their perspective) invading their home.

Personally, I prefer applying bug spray over raking.

Bug spray = making bugs stay away

Rakes = destroying their home
Sandy Manet <beachbum56@gmail.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Tue 07/18/2023 - 10:25:27
The new regs included people on skateboards, scooters and roller skates. We are talking about State highways! WTF?
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 07/16/2023 - 18:48:44
Bill - I thought Judy Hanlon's letter in the Chronicle was a joke. This coming from a COA Board member. This group has lied consistently about everything and she has a lot of nerve to call Seth out. Remember - they lied about Orleans turning people away from their daycare program. They were called about publicly by the director of the Orleans COA. They consistently fabricated numbers of their program attendance as evidenced in the Chronicle by a participant. The best was when she said we accused the proponents of stealing signs. Ms. Hanlon- maybe you should check with the Chatham Police Dept. Seth Taylor and I placed signs one day and within one hour they were gone. We had almost 20 signs stolen - time and time again. Gee - I wonder who took them? Please do not insult our intelligence by saying your group didn't take them. I think one of the best comments to date is Ms Aikman's - asking why Orleans (basically same sized town) makes do with a Council of Aging facility that is under 10k square feet and why does Chatham need over 35,000 square feet. These people have proven time and time again they will lie to achieve their goal of obtaining an oversized building that will never get the attendance they want . Remember -Ms Hanlon - you and Ms Burke and Ms Segal have turned more Chatham citizens against you than you could ever imagine. You have also insulted a former selectman in a manner that continues to make you look petty. We do not want to have anything to do with the COA until you learn the fine art of compromise.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/15/2023 - 22:26:13
Going to P Town last week, a woman on a bike on Route 6 suddenly put out her arm out to signal she wanted to turn left., across traffic that could have killed her. Her male friend was smart enough to pull off to the side until it was safe to cross three lanes of traffic. Yes, they have equal access to the highways, but common sense should prevail.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 07/15/2023 - 19:18:23
Bill - I thought Judy Hanlon's letter in the Chronicle was a joke. This coming from a COA Board member. This group has lied consistently about everything and she has a lot of nerve to call Seth out. Remember - they lied about Orleans turning people away from their daycare program. They were called about publicly by the director of the Orleans COA. They consistently fabricated numbers of their program attendance as evidenced in the Chronicle by a participant. The best was when she said we accused the proponents of stealing signs. Ms. Hanlon- maybe you should check with the Chatham Police Dept. Seth Taylor and I placed signs one day and within one hour they were gone. We had almost 20 signs stolen - time and time again. Gee - I wonder who took them? Please do not insult our intelligence by saying your group didn't take them. I think one of the best comments to date is Ms Aikman's - asking why Orleans (basically same sized town) makes do with a Council of Aging facility that is under 10k square feet and why does Chatham need over 35,000 square feet. These people have proven time and time again they will lie to achieve their goal of obtaining an oversized building that will never get the attendance they want . Remember -Ms Hanlon - you and Ms Burke and Ms Segal have turned more Chatham citizens against you than you could ever imagine. You have also insulted a former selectman in a manner that continues to make you look petty. We do not want to have anything to do with the COA until you learn the fine art of compromise.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/15/2023 - 19:17:32
July 4th week my grandchildren got sand flea bites at Hardings. The beach was never cleaned. They had to go to the health care center in Harwich. Chatham should rake its beaches.
AK
Chatham , MA USA - Sat 07/15/2023 - 18:26:17
Just received a renewal notice for my truck registration. Included was a paper delineating the new rule about passing bicyclists, and others. Now you must be FOUR feet from them while passing. (They should be prohibited from using Route 28 (North and South) for bicycling between Orleans and Chatham ). It is even OK to pass over a double solid yellow line, if safe to do so, in order to carry out this new edict/law.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 07/15/2023 - 17:17:38
When the flak is heaviest you know your over the target.

I am referring to the coordinated attack on Seth Taylor in the Chronicle opinion page.

To those who support 1610, if it's voted down again maybe you can have another vote in Oct, then Nov, etc.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/15/2023 - 16:46:14
Amy, good post. Drop me a note to discuss this issue - I have a few thoughts.

D
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 07/14/2023 - 20:37:38
Are there problems with the Oyster Pond bathing beaches AND Hardings Beach?
Here in Eastham. the public beach just to the North of us (Cooks Brook) has been closed for this week and many weeks in previous summers, due to high coliform levels. Too many septic systems too close to Cape Cod Bay, with not enough distance for sand filtration to work its miracles.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 20:21:23
I would urge everyone here to watch the Select Board Meeting from Tuesday night. Our Town Manager and Health Agent were caught being less than truthful about the mess at Oyster Pond. Elaine Gibbs called them out and proved them wrong. Then they posted on a website that is was opened again for swimming but could not be bothered to remove the No Swimming "'signs til they were called out. Remember I asked for a reason as to why the beach was so disgusting? They told me that Mass Audubon blamed plovers and when I asked for the memo all of a sudden the plovers were gone and the beach would be cleaned regularly. Now we have the SRAC thumbing their noses at violating Open Meeting Laws despite being warned not to do so by Town Counsel. The Chair was so arrogant he held a meeting in his limo and fell asleep during the meeting! The Town Manager would not make them adhere to the rules. The topper -Ms Davis congratulating a less than competent staff for their hard work . Wake up people and pay attention. Do you actually think this proposed COA is above board? Watch this meeting and see the lies and mistruths - and remember - these are people WE ELECTED- that can not be trusted.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 19:04:08
Excuse me... have I been banned from this room?
BobR <zut444@verizon.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 19:02:18
Gee mister moderator, would you allow me to say what I think of the way you run this room? I feel as though I would be immediately blackballed.
BobR <zut444@verizon.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 18:53:56
This explains the process for rule 9A.

https://www.mass.gov/superior-court-rules/superior-court-rule-9a-civil-motions
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 10:42:02
My previous post about a motion to dismiss 1610 lawsuit has been corrected and is now in the file.

No facts were filed at this time. Taylor would have this.

A separate memorandum stating the reasons, including supporting authorities, that the motion should be granted and affidavits or other exhibits evidencing facts on which the motion is based.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 10:37:28
I've waited a long time for Town officials to explain why Orleans, our demographic twin, can manage with a single 8,500sf building for its COA/day care/community activities needs, while Chatham must have a total of 39,500sf for the exact same purposes. If there's to be a STM, we need explanations beforehand.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 10:33:59
The opposition to the current plan for the senior center (size and location) now needs to focus its energies on getting like minded people to town meeting, if it happens, which it probably will. The proponents will show up....we can't let down due to being worn out over this issue.
Amy
USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 10:06:06
The Sandwich CFAL/community building is 26,000sf. So it's even smaller than our Community Center.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 08:22:48
Interestingly, the new Sandwich building is called the Center for Active Living. Sandwich has over 3 times the population of Chatham and this single building serves its needs for a COA and community recreation activities. For Chatham, a new CFAL building of almost 11,000sf, along with our 28,500sf Community Center, our very small town would far surpass most Cape towns in terms of municipal activity space. It would be very helpful to have an explanation of why this is fiscally prudent.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 07:59:22
Debbie - Sandwich built a Community Center for the entire town. It includes a COA, a gym, walking paths, and a few pickle ball courts. They built it so everyone in town would benefit. Maybe if the few participants of the COA weren't so hellbent on having their own private building for just themselves they'd see how wonderful our Community Center is- instead of trying to force everyone to pay for a building only a "select few" would use. I hope folks realize how ridiculous this expense would be and join me in voting NO again - if this meeting goes forward.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 07:21:17
To clarify: 8 people for the second floor adult day care space, or ~2 Chatham residents participating each day if a 4 day/week program. I don't know how many individuals are predicted to use the rest of the space in the building.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/13/2023 - 06:44:54
Richard - YES - that's about the extent of it. May as many as 12. Ridiculous waste of money.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 19:38:52
The advocates want to build a multi million $$ facility to accommodate 8 people?
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 17:46:32
Judy and David -- Well, I actually have much more important things to do than spend time chatting with you. But before I sign off until after the special town meeting in September, I will say this without attacking either of you personally.

I have been visiting and living in Chatham for about 60 years. During that time I have advocated for many Chatham projects and issues, including 3 plus years for a new senior center. The fact that I moved to Florida, Judy, doesn't mean that I have abandoned the causes in Chatham that I feel strongly about, especially building a new senior center and affordable housing. I will continue to support and work with anyone and everyone who agrees with and furthers those goals.

Chat with you in September.
George M
Venice, FL USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 17:23:59
Odd situation in the 1610 lawsuit. There is a notice of of intent to dismiss filed today. But the document has nothing to do with the case.

2372CV00236 Taylor, Seth vs. Town of Chatham Board of Selectmen

Could it be just a misfiling?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 16:45:01
How in the world could the BOS decide that Seth Taylor's well researched and valid suit be considered FRIVOLOUS? Two attorneys, one school administrator, one fisherwoman, one true native Chathamite......HUH? You are elected to represent OUR wishes....after three NO votes? We need more locals to vote and kill this issue, there are plenty more alternatives for our seniors! (Me included).
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham , MA USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 12:54:58
There is at least one lawsuit, possibly more,brought against the town for allowing this builder to continue to change plots that negatively impact surrounding properties by redirecting the natural overland flow of water run-off onto their land.Check out Whitely Way, where a neighbor is suing the town.Same thing is happening there that happened on Joshua Jethro Road in Riverbay where the town spent over $400,000 to rectify a drainage problem caused by a new build.Perhaps the BOS feel the town is "owed" this "gift" for continuously supporting him and bailing him out.
Nancy Gillis-Hendel <nanhendel@comcast.net>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 12:33:38
David Mott: Your negative comments to George M fall into what is considered a personal attack which is NOT allowed here. Consider this a warning and I will likely be deleting that post at some point soon.
Would you want someone to say that text to you? I seriously doubt anyone would like that.
J Hallgren (as Moderator)
S Chatham , MA USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 11:11:35
George - you seem to have an answer for everything; yet you still aren't able to comprehend this is not needed nor is it wanted here. Perhaps your time would be better spent on improving the COA in Venice if they even have one. Once again, the lot is too small for that oversized building. There is no need for a day care center when Orleans graciously allows Chatham residents. The COA folks lied about them turning away folks and they have lied consistently about the numbers that attend their programs. They have turned a majority of folks against them. That was why we did drive bys a few years ago. The Community Center will more than fill the needs of the seniors and for you to keep posting about this is mind boggling. Dave M and I want to know specifically what is in it for you - why don't you answer?
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 09:51:44
George M - you didn't answer the question so I'm left to believe you're a lonely old man of little consequence with nothing better to do with your time. We're trying to resolve a serious town issue and you're just noise. Find a hobby.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 09:50:47
Before we get all sappy over Bill Marsh and his "generous" gift to the Town, remember that originally he tried to dump the property onto the taxpayers for more than what it was worth, all because the planning board denied him a subdivision plan for the property. He only decided to give it to the Town after he realized the taxpayers wouldn't go for purchasing it.

Please use your brain and think, "if Marsh (who would build on any property anywhere) is giving away land (or attempting to saddle taxpayers with the burden) what motivation does he have. I bet that community generosity isn't it.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 07/12/2023 - 06:37:06
I get it. So it's Bill Marsh and his gift to the town the reason you folks oppose a new CFAL.
George M
Venice, FL USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 22:38:48
George M - how much is Marsh paying you to pollute our Chat Room with your Florida drivel? There must be something in this for you and I for one would like to know what you're getting out of posting to a chat room 1500 miles away.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 22:21:46
Orleans has an 8,500sf Senior Center which includes a wing housing a 4 day/week regional day care program. Participants from 4 towns attend one or two days of the 4 days. So Chatham's 8 participants would average 1-2 per day in attendance. Before funding is in place for day care space, a decision should be made as to whether Chatham taxpayers will support this program. Also, Orleans doesn't have a community center. I know of only 2 other Cape towns with that luxury- Harwich (which also houses its Senior Center) and Falmouth (which is 5 times the size of Chatham). I do not understand why Chatham can't use the 28,000sf Community Center space for some COA programs, thereby allowing for a much smaller new build.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 21:26:59
Richard - Perhaps additional staff hours not more staff. I don't know the answer. As you probably know, summer residents pay about 60% of Chatham's taxes, which would include the cost of a new CFAL and staff salaries.

A Chatham program would probably save on vehicle usage, maintenance, gas, driver wages and maybe other costs. But see my previous post. Why can't Chatham take care of its own seniors in need of day care despite the cost?
George M
Venice, FL USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 20:02:44
Bill -- Well, 11 isn't "no one." Besides, your math is wrong. It's 15 a 5-day week plus another 5 day care folks who are trekked weekdays over to Orleans. So 20 is a more accurate number and I'll wager with a new, open and more welcoming facility, more parking, more programs in a more walkable village environment that number will increase substantially. Build it and they will come.

And why trek those 6 day care folks in 384 annual trips back and forth to Orleans for day care? Isn't Chatham compassionate enough to provide those services for its own Chatham seniors who need them?

Size? Orleans, with about the same senior population as Chatham, has a !0,000 sq ft facility enlarged 23 years ago. Any smaller facility in Chatham would likely be too small for Chatham's growing senior population by the time it is completed. Six years ago, the recommended size was 14,000 to 15,650 sq ft. The proposed 10,965 sq ft facility is a significant compromise from that recommendation.
George M
Venice, FL USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 19:46:44
George:
Where would the $$ come from to fund similar program in Chatham ? Bus fare is certainly less expensive than a paid staff.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 19:22:55
George - exactly what is your stake in this? You are no longer a resident. Using your figure of 3937 visits for perhaps a 300 day figure that amounts to about an average of 13,people per day. Between Bill's and my figure - that is maybe 13 people per day? That is insane to spend that type of money for so few people. I'd also like to remind you that many of us drove by that COA at all different times a few years ago and recorded the amount of cars in parking lot. Even people utilizing it today say no one is ever there. Why place this burden on taxpayers for this few people? It makes absolutely ZERO sense. Don't accuse me of spreading false information when you and your cronies have lied about this for years. We'd all like to know what you're getting out of this to still promote it? Feel free to let us all know . I hope you are enjoying Florida.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 19:02:09
Is Hardings Beach any better this week?
One time I did find a small gold charm, exposed by the wind in the winter, there lost by a 30 year employee of the Chesapeake and Potomac Telephone company. It was worn through the little round part and lost while she was bathing I guess. (Did they ever give such an award to a guy? )
I tried to find who this might have been awarded to, but the Company has been taken over several times. I couldn't find anyone who cared, or gave a___. It would be very cool to find this person, or their grandkids, and give it to them.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 17:49:56
Why replicate in Chatham, a program located as close as Orleans that already accepts Chatham residents? Misinformation? Like the misinformation that COA supporters spread ad infinitum that Orleans was "turning away Chatham residents?" I've heard repetitious cries that the current senior center is ready to fall down. I've been in there many times and while I think the building could use renovations, I hardly find the previous argument to be correct.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 14:41:08
George, assuming your numbers are correct that's 11 a day. Sorry that's a small number for a $11,000,000 price tag. Why can't you support a smaller less expensive building?
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 14:37:23
Judy - Spreading misinformation is unhelpful. From July 1, 2022 to June 30, 23, the COA had an attendance of 3,937 for its programs so your allegation that "no one goes anymore" is just not true. Why not get accurate data before you post?

BTW, during that time the COA made 384 trips to the Orleans day program for 6 residents. Why not have that program here in Chatham?

Isn't it also possible that the conditions at and location of the old Stony Hill facility are turning some away?
George M
Venice, FL USA - Tue 07/11/2023 - 12:43:48
Interesting interchange between COA supporters and non supporters.
Staying out of this harangue.
Still an advocate for metered parking at the Fish Pier.
"Visit the pier to watch seals? Use your card. You all know how to do this."
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 18:57:06
Carol - as I mentioned - a little compromise with these folks could have gone a long way. Their unwillingness to do so has not boded well. We have a mostly empty Community Center as well that the seniors have been utilizing. Chatham is not California and the expense is more than ridiculous when we have other alternatives. The building is way too big for that sized lot. We can agree to disagree on this.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 16:04:44
Judy, the numbers may be down, but we have been in a once-in-century pandemic which is now considered endemic. I don't know about you, but I continue to remain cautious and wear a mask indoors. I am not about to get on an airplane anytime soon either. The COA provides many services to our seniors and deserves our support. There are many folks like myself that have family members that live in Chatham that depend on the services that the COA provides.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 15:25:55
Carol - The problem those against it have - is that no one goes anymore. The Town cannot afford to spend that kind of money for a select few people. We have serious issues with our water wells that need replacing among many other things. If this building were to be built, it should benefit the entire town, not just a few folks. Most new buildings today for seniors incorporate the entire town so everyone benefits. Many have offered to work with them to come up with something suitable, and they have refused. This is why we are where we are at today - they refuse to commpromise.
Judy P
W Chatham, MA USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 14:38:19
I read all the letters in the Cape Cod Chronicle and most all of the articles. I have family that lives in Chatham and on the Outer Cape, although one family member is now living in a memory care facility in another town on the Cape.I have been to the current location of the Chatham Council on Aging several years ago with my mother. My observation was that the building was crowded, as the facility was originally built for apartments. 12 Million for a new building is not unreasonable for a new facility. The property has been generously donated, and if it is allowed to be built, the current COA building then will be turned into much needed housing/apartments. To me, it is a win-win situation. The majority of the voters want the COA - it just needs a 2/3 majority to pass. The last vote lost by only one vote! Now some of you might think that I do not have a right to my opinion because I reside in another state. Not only do I have family in Chatham, I also have friends in Chatham that have worked and paid taxes all of heir lives. Seniors deserve our support and respect.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 13:09:22
Btw, Emily, if I'm not mistaken, a majority of voters approved Article 18.
George M
Venice, FL USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 13:05:37
Dave and all ( Post 1) - It's not my point. It's Town Counsel's (and Appendix D's) point that even if an appropriation fails at town meeting as Article 18 did by one vote, the ballot question on Article 18 is valid and the town can seek approval of an appropriation for the same purpose at another town meeting held within a "reasonable time." It can hardly be disputed that a special town meeting called within 4 months of the annual town meeting is within a reasonable time. And it makes no difference which comes first, appropriation or ballot question. See Appendix D Numbers 1 and 2.
George M
Venice, FL USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 12:54:42
Dave and all ( Post 3) - By the way, Town Counsel pointed this out in the May 18 front page Chronicle article a month before Seth filed his lawsuit. Counsel is quoted there as follows:

"In an email Tuesday, Town Counsel Patrick Costello said while borrowing through an override of Proposition 2 1/2 requires approval at town meeting and the ballot box, state statutes don't specify the sequence of the votes.
George M
Venice, FL USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 12:52:45
Dave and all ( Post 2) - There is also no limit on the number of times either a ballot question or town meeting vote can be held. He cited a 2017 state department of revenue division of local services publication about Proposition 2.5 ballot questions which says that if a ballot question passes but the town meeting appropriation fails, a town has a 'reasonable time to authorize debt for the same project.'"
George M
Venice, FL USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 12:51:58
Dave and all ( Post 3) - And as counsel stated, there is no limit on the number of times a town meeting vote, or ballot question, on the same issue/article can be held.

Despite the fact that I am a Florida resident, I'm inclined to agree with Town Counsel rather than Seth.
George M
Venice, FL USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 12:49:30
How in the world could the BOS decide that Seth Taylor's well researched and valid suit be considered FRIVOLOUS? Two attorneys, one school administrator, one fisherwoman, one true native Chathamite......HUH? You are elected to represent OUR wishes....after three NO votes? We need more locals to vote and kill this issue, there are plenty more alternatives for our seniors! (Me included).
Emily Cunningham <Dayonown@yahoo.com>
Chatham , MA USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 12:09:10
John - Bill and Dave are correct. George (and you) is a resident of Florida and will never use it. We are residents and we agree with Seth. Why folks that aren't residents weigh in on this topic never cease to amaze me. You can bet if the vote was opposite we would not be acting like whiny children and bringing this back time and time again until we got our way. This is a blatant waste of taxpayer money on something that has been voted down every single time it's come up for a vote. And, it will again - if it even gets to September w/o being shut down.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 08:47:33
Bill P: No, it's not the opposite that happened - because the question is the ballot vote and the appropriation is the town meeting vote. The question/ballot passed.
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Mon 07/10/2023 - 00:43:00
The issue is prop 2 1/2 over ride had no lawful approved capitol project to be applied to since the vote failed.

John in your quote, it says if the question passes and appropriation fails.

What happened is the opposite, the question failed.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 23:08:59
George's point, as I read it, was this text which indicates to me that the election vote was appropriate to be held as it's separate from the town meeting vote:
" If question passes and appropriation fails
- Question is valid
- If override/capital exclusion, have until tax rate
set to appropriate for same purpose
- If debt exclusion, have reasonable time to
authorize debt for same project"
J Hallgren (as user)
S Chatham , MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 22:06:12
George M - what's your point? The issue of building a new COA failed to pass therefore no appropriation of funds vote should have taken place as I read it. If you're going to post please include a kernel of your position so we can follow your train of thought.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 21:26:33
Re Seth Taylor lawsuit: Please see Appendix D, Number 2 at: https://www.mass.gov/doc/proposition-2-12-ballot-question-requirement-and-procedure/download
George M
USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 20:07:36
Thank you Wayne
AK
Chatham , MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 19:26:23
Having grown up in Chatham, us Ryder kids never went to Hardings Beach to swim - too far away. After my Dad bought the "Camp" on North Beach after WWII, that was our "beach". No one else was there. We could swim in Pleasant Bay or try to in the Atlantic Ocean.
Great memories of that place. Skunks and all.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 17:46:10
My father worked the beach patrol on North Beach for years. When there were plovers - beach was either closed - like it is now- or roped off for the birds. Whoever "cleaned" Harding's today did a terrible job. It looked like three swipes were done. Someone needs to supervise these people. it was still disgusting and the stench was horrific from dead horseshoe crabs. . There is no excuse for our beautiful beaches to be like this on the busiest week of the year. I'm betting our Town Manager never even looked at it.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 17:33:45
One group lists the Piping Plover as" Near Threatened," with 8400 nesting pairs counted. Another group lists the Piping Plovers as "Threatened" (Massachusetts) . It seems the more recent steps taken to protect them have been successful. Putting cages around them only tipped off the crows and foxes as to where they were.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 17:13:45
There was a boat running back and forth at lighthouse beach. Its traps were picking something up, maybe lobsters? Not sure. I think the name was musscle? Does anyone know what type of fishing boat it was?
AK
Chatham , MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 15:38:51
AK, That boat is towing a dredge to catch mussels.The kind you eat steamed in a restaurant. That boat and another have been working that spot for over a month.
Wayne <alongshore2002@yahoo.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 15:00:03
There was a boat running back and forth at lighthouse beach. Its traps were picking something up, maybe lobsters? Not sure. I think the name was musscle? Does anyone know what type of fishing boat it was?
AK
Chatham , MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 13:59:35
Piping Plovers are such cute little birds and are very good at camouflage, so their nests are difficult to see. They are on the endangered species list. Carefully raking the beach is being considerate to the nesting birds. Bird watching is lots of fun.

https://www.audubon.org/field-guide/bird/piping-plover
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 13:14:07
One could argue the birds were here first. Apparently this has been an issue on the cape's south-facing beaches for a number of years. Link:

https://capecodchronicle.com/en/5128/chatham/332/State-Plover-Plan-Means-Little-For-North-Beach-ORV-Access-Environment-Beaches.htm

Issues are similar here, but "weed on the beach" has a smuggling connection, too. Back in the seventies a boatload of cannabis tipped over in the surf, and locals, being good Humboldters, recovered what they could and lit up. The price was right, but salty pot - not so good. Back East (that's you) I suppose it would have been liquor smuggling, most of which would have no doubt sank.

I have enjoyed your beaches on our visits. Armchair vacationers can visit our weed beach here: https://www.californiabeaches.com/beach/samoa-beach/

Have a wonderful day.
Gregory N Conners <conners.greg@gmail.com>
LOLETA, CA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 12:29:42
I was just told by a town employee the beach was being cleaned at 7 this morning. This was after I asked for the memo from the Audobon society about the (non-existent) plovers. It's really sad when you have to publicly shame everyone to do their jobs. Once a year for a few months - is it too much to clean the beaches for residents and tourists?
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 11:02:40
They're raking Harding's Beach! Yeah
Josie
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/09/2023 - 09:03:27
I was told today (by several folks) the explanation I was given for the beaches not being cleaned was bs. If indeed there were plovers the beach would be closed or roped off. As taxpayers we deserve better. I can't believe they have the audacity to charge $25 daily to sit in seaweed. We need to demand better . They can use our money to spend $29-30K for a Special Town Meeting - they can certainly clean the beaches more than once a week w/o the bs excuses.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/08/2023 - 18:25:09
For years, my dad cleaned Harding's, Ridgedale, and Cockle Cove. I remember him getting up in the dark to head for the Town barn. All he used was a Ford tractor with a York rake. He would rake the seaweed into piles and use the loader bucket to leave it atop the dunes to dry out. Our beach budget was $0, as he would bring home chairs, towels, and beach toys that the summer tourists would leave behind.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/08/2023 - 17:46:49
I have seen a beach cleaning machine enroute to some Outer Cape beach; it is towed, or is self propelled, along the wrack line.
The CCNS beaches put up sticks and strings to keep people away from nesting birds. Wholesale closure of the beach at Race Point is not necessary. Perhaps a consultation with CCNS natural resource people would b e warranted, rather than relying on hearsay info .
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 07/08/2023 - 16:59:34
Imagine paying a $20 day fee and seeing that. Someone should put up a sign and say just go to Nauset beach.

By the way, the 1610 folks are back at the Village Market.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/08/2023 - 15:49:36
I have not been to Harding's Beach for years, but as I recall, there was always seaweed there, especially after a storm. Yes, seaweed and dead horseshoe crabs do stink. I remember my dad diving into the water there only to come out of the water covered in seaweed as a "seaweed monster", which was frightfully funny. Seaweed makes wonderful compost - just be sure to let the rain rinse the salt out before planting. How does the town "clean" the beach? Do they have a machine that rakes the whole beach? Where does the refuse go? Green waste? I am curious.
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Sat 07/08/2023 - 14:06:35
That sounds fishy to me the birds are nesting further on down the beach.
Josie
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/08/2023 - 11:59:11
I received a response from our Town Manager this morning. She was told by her dept head the Audoban folks are only allowing one beach per week due to piping plovers. Never heard that one before.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/08/2023 - 11:33:39
Hardings Beach is so unpleasant now that I may not even renew my pass for next year. I am not sure what has changed but if this continues there is no reason to give more money to the Town of Chatham (beyond the taxes I already pay) to sit in filth. Very sad what they have let happen to these once beautiful beaches!
Vince M <vmottolajr@yahoo.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/08/2023 - 10:41:54
I went to Harding's Beach today. The beach hasn't been cleaned in over a week. There is seaweed mixed with dead horseshoe crabs (as reported in the Chronicle ) and the smell is horrific. As a taxpayer I feel we deserve better. If I were paying money to vacation here I'd be livid. One of the lifeguards was burying a man-o-war that washed up. She told me people have complained every day about the seaweed and the horrific stench. What the heck is going on? Kids can't play ball on the beach anymore and the use of floats is prohibited. Life was easier when Dan Tobin was in charge. As many others, I'm not impressed with the new regime. .
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Fri 07/07/2023 - 19:32:44
So when did the Town of Chatham stop taking care of its beaches? Both Hardings and Cockle Cove are embarrassing. These beaches are very popular with residents and tourists alike - we need to make some noise about this - just another example of Town mismanagement. I guess it's more about management earning stars than it is about real town operations.
David Mott <Djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Fri 07/07/2023 - 19:31:58
The BOS did this to themselves. If they had listened to reason and not been so hell bent on this location against the wishes of so many, this complaint likely, would not have been filed. The way I see it, the selectmen and (their immediate past chairman) were listening to only one group and when multiple no votes failed to get their attention, the only other way to be heard was to take it to court.
Jared Fulcher
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/06/2023 - 20:35:46
Richard - when two people are struck by vehicles on the same day in a town that is over-populated I think that's newsworthy. The Chronicle tends to cover more mundane things. I'm surprised more folks haven't written here in reference to the sleazy moves by our Select Board and their never ending quest to build a COA.
Judy P
West Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/06/2023 - 20:16:35
Judy: I don't rely on the Chronicle to tell of all the car accidents or arrests in Chatham. I think there is another Cape website that covers that.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Thu 07/06/2023 - 19:36:49
Seth Taylor's complaint is a perfect opportunity for the SB to back down and look for alternatives. I for one don't want the time & money spent on flogging an issue which has insufficient support - it only serves to make SB (minus Mr. Metters) look quixotic. In their efforts to be clever they have exposed their hubris - they should have embraced Ann Ryan's request to convene a new committee to find a better alternative.
Dave Mott <djmott@aol.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Thu 07/06/2023 - 10:45:20
I'm not surprised they are going ahead with the Special Town Meeting. Too many promises have been made to people for them to back out now. I hope the courts decide otherwise. One post on Facebook says every single member of the Board should be voted out for going against the will of the people. I agree.
JudyP
WChatham, MA USA - Thu 07/06/2023 - 08:19:35
Just wanted to share this tweet because it mentions the Chat-M-room from the Chronicle. https://twitter.com/cccnewsroom/status/1676676161047351299?s=61&t=2wJmh8poAGLaV7WnTriHLQ
Laurie <lauriep1234@gmail.com>
Chatham , MA USA - Thu 07/06/2023 - 04:58:25
I think fair and balanced reporting would include the two accidents that occurred over the holiday. The Chronicle chooses only to report what they want to. Typical of a liberal small town paper.
Judy P <Judylpat@comcast.net >
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 07/05/2023 - 23:24:33
Just wanted to share this tweet because it mentions the Chat-M-room from the Chronicle. https://twitter.com/cccnewsroom/status/1676676161047351299?s=61&t=2wJmh8poAGLaV7WnTriHLQ
Laurie <lauriep1234@gmail.com>
Chatham , MA USA - Wed 07/05/2023 - 19:51:56
My wife and I have given up on the Cape Codder, and have been subscribers to the Chronicle for several years and recently to the Provincetown Independent. I don't perceive either of them as only purveyors of ads, but rather reporters of merit on what is important to their readers.
Their Letters to The Editor Columns are a good barometer of what the community is feeling. Forget the CC Times.
I do have an old bunch of Cape Codder papers that should be in a better home. They are from the 1950's!
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Wed 07/05/2023 - 19:00:06
I do not write a column but I could not agree with John more. Great newspaper and they work very hard to do a good job. Also one of the 2 pedestrian accidents was not even close to downtown. I hate miss information.
Wayne <alongshore2002@yahoo.com>
West Chatham, MA USA - Wed 07/05/2023 - 17:15:52
I am prejudiced since I write a monthly column for the Chronicle, but I feel it is an excellent example of an independent local newspaper. One of the few remaining and a good paper.
john whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 07/05/2023 - 16:24:37
I recognize that the Chronicle is primarily an advertiser operating under the guise of a news source and doesn't want to upset the downtown merchants. But still you would think that some mention of the 2 recent pedestrian vs MV accidents downtown is indeed news worthy.
Chuck
Chatham, MA USA - Wed 07/05/2023 - 11:41:20
Cynthia:
Thanks for the info re Babe Miller. There is a group in Provincetown that want to erect some sort of monument to honor the fishermen who have been lost at sea. As well as the USLSS Surfmen who died trying to save mariners off the shores of the Outer Cape. I have not found if Mr. Miller was operating out of Provincetown when he was lost.
And, congratulations to the finest of gentlemen, John Whelan.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Mon 07/03/2023 - 17:40:15
Congratulations to John Whelan! I read that John will be the Grand Marshall in the Chatham 4th of July Parade! Happy 4th of July to All-
Carol Ann Conners <carolann.conners@gmail.com>
Loleta, CA USA - Mon 07/03/2023 - 10:52:05
Happy 4th of July to everyone on the CHAT-M-Room
john whelan <sockpirate44@gmail.com>
Chatham, MA USA - Mon 07/03/2023 - 09:09:41
Bill - they are as quiet as a church mouse. Wednesday night they meet in a closed door session. It is totally irresponsible of them to continue this charade. A few folks have mentioned they would like to start a recall petition on the ring leader of it all. I would be for that. Not sure how others feel but I think we could get the signatures
Judy P <Judylpat@comcast.net >
West Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/02/2023 - 17:10:54
Any Public announcement or whispers on how the select board plans to respond to the 1610 law suit?

It seems irresponsible to have town meeting vote while the lawsuit is pending.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/02/2023 - 15:30:32
Wanted to add normally on a cloudy/rain day it would be backed bumper to bumper up to Phillips farm area.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/02/2023 - 13:22:59
Cloudy Sunday 12:30 before the 4th and the traffic on 28 approaching the lights was not bad, almost light. What's going on?

I rode my bike to the Market and had no problem crossing 28 at Heritage and the cars were only backed up at a red light around the Munson gallery. Flowing fine on a green light.
Bill P
Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/02/2023 - 13:19:56
Richard Ryder. Babe Miller is buried in Seaside cemetery on a Wilson stone
Charles Clyde "Babe" Miller
BIRTH
19 Nov 1912
Nova Scotia, Canada
DEATH
7 Mar 1962 (aged 49)
At Sea
Cynthia Moore <cynthiamoore120@yahoo.com>
South Chatham, MA USA - Sun 07/02/2023 - 07:41:59
Is there any one out there who knows the story about the loss of fisherman Babe Miller? I remember him as a larger than life person who I thought used to live on Bar Cliff Avenue. I recall that he was lost at sea in a winter storm, but I can't find anything about the tragedy, or him.
Richard R. <dickryder413@gmail.com>
Eastham, MA USA - Sat 07/01/2023 - 16:31:22
I didn't post the previous message. It's a double post of a previous message dealing with sewer work.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/01/2023 - 09:29:10
The notice I read said 2-4AM.
Debbie
Chatham, MA USA - Sat 07/01/2023 - 09:12:54
Better than a dull line

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